I thought the whole idea was to stretch your envelope and get you outside your comfort zone. That is the only way to progress, either on the road or in life. Sitting safe within your comfort zone means you don't expand your horizon.
A 2 day course with Rapid is around £800. 1st Class Riders used to run a 4 day course which you did the IAM and RoSPA test at the end. Mileage over the 4 days 2k, cost with overnight and breakfast and dinner around £1500. 6 years ago. £20 for a tutor is pretty good value.
My IAM observer would never accept £ for fuel, so, as he was a smoker, I would buy him a packet of fags or 2 each session.
Exactly right. “Making progress” is one of the phrases that I abhor. I was (many) years ago, an advanced police motorcyclist and I think I can still hustle along quite well.
I am quite happy to make my own decisions and if that doesn't suit the 'person following' because they think I should have caned the engine, burned my rear tyre, used a whole lot more fuel just to get past a vehicle in front that isn't dawdling anyway... it serves them jolly well right.Exactly right. “Making progress” is one of the phrases that I abhor. I was (many) years ago, an advanced police motorcyclist and I think I can still hustle along quite well.
A mate of mine recently passed his test and I take him out once a week, mainly me following and we have a brew and chat part way round. I have absolutely never once mentioned speed/ urgency/ missed opportunities to overtake to him. I do mention the odd thing on bike control, positioning, obs etc., and his increasing proficiency is naturally translating into “progress”. On a 90 minute ride I might note down 10-20 overtakes that were “on”, that he either didn’t see or chose not to take. As it should be- if you’re not riding within your comfort zone you’re a bellend. There is no inbetween. If I tell him where he “could” have overtaken when he didn’t feel comfortable to do it…. is there a chance he’ll change his (safe) attitude? I’m not willing to risk it. I’ve met some pretty sound, relaxed instructors for both IAM and RoSPA who get it and so I’m absolutely not knocking either of the two. But I’ve met the odd one or two who left me with the impression they were a bit “repeat after me” types.
It’s all about finding an instructor that equips you in a chilled out, constructive way and then one day all those checklists just get the right score or tick. Don’t chase a tick in the box, it’ll all come easily enough anyway with the right support and time.
I contacted Rapid, but they were not geared up to teaching people how to ride economically. I want my tyres and fuel and chain to last longer and still get the miles in. They looked at me as if I had two heads when I suggested it. They are all about being able to ride faster.... that is not for me. I want to have the time to watch the hares in the field and look at the kites soaring in the valley and the bluebells painted up the slope..... the last thing I want to have to look at is a boring, dark grey, ribbon of tarmac. My peripheral can do that at my riding speeds.
Done. many times, sometimes twice a year, once in the spring, which I did this year with Lincolnshire last month, then again in the autumn to ready me for winter and bring up sharp from summer riding where you get into bad habits.
Well said, and thanks for an excellent post above
Yes, I like the look of the webpage I read from that link.Well said, and thanks for an excellent post above
Mindset matters. An attitude that focuses on riding safely, smoothly and systematically should result in appropriate safety margins – with time and space in hand to deal with the unexpected. However, my experience of the IAM and RoSPA was that the making progress mindset shrank those safety limits regardless of the emphasis on the system. Psychologically, many will overtake with reduced safety margins when making progress is front of mind. It’s the wrong mindset for civilian riders and why I eventually left RoSPA.
IME, Kevin Williams’ Survival Skills training shows how it should be done: excellent coaching in advanced skills without the emphasis on making progress. (I have no affiliation with Kevin, incidentally.)
Spot on Craig. We do advanced training on a course called Take Control which we deliver on behalf of the West Mercia Police Safe Roads Partnership in the counties of Worcs, Hereford and Salop. We never, ever tell the students to "make progress" which is just another phrase for "go faster". We never push them to take risks or ride out of their comfort zone. Instead we focus on improving their forward obs, planning, interpretation of the information, risk assessment, positioning, use of gears, turning in points, counter steering and throttle sense. When all of these factors improve then they subconsciously become faster, not because they are trying to go quick but it becomes a by-product of their increased accuracy, better skills and precision.Exactly right. “Making progress” is one of the phrases that I abhor. I was (many) years ago, an advanced police motorcyclist and I think I can still hustle along quite well.
A mate of mine recently passed his test and I take him out once a week, mainly me following and we have a brew and chat part way round. I have absolutely never once mentioned speed/ urgency/ missed opportunities to overtake to him. I do mention the odd thing on bike control, positioning, obs etc., and his increasing proficiency is naturally translating into “progress”. On a 90 minute ride I might note down 10-20 overtakes that were “on”, that he either didn’t see or chose not to take. As it should be- if you’re not riding within your comfort zone you’re a bellend. There is no inbetween. If I tell him where he “could” have overtaken when he didn’t feel comfortable to do it…. is there a chance he’ll change his (safe) attitude? I’m not willing to risk it. I’ve met some pretty sound, relaxed instructors for both IAM and RoSPA who get it and so I’m absolutely not knocking either of the two. But I’ve met the odd one or two who left me with the impression they were a bit “repeat after me” types.
It’s all about finding an instructor that equips you in a chilled out, constructive way and then one day all those checklists just get the right score or tick. Don’t chase a tick in the box, it’ll all come easily enough anyway with the right support and time.
And this is what advanced riding should be, it's a shame there are many RoSPA/IAM groups that focus on making progress. The South Wales group certainly don't do this, if someone is wanting to go for test they are made aware there is an expectation that they will be expected to ride at the speed limit if it's safe to do so as that is what the examiner will want to see but then if it's damp or poor visibility they'd expect to see some restraint shown.
Isn't that a bit of a contradiction? The examiner will want to see you ride at the speed limit. What if you are happy at 50 or 55 (on a 60 road obs) even in perfect conditions....does that make you not Advanced. If so then Advanced is speed/progress related.
At the end of the ride the examiner would ask you to go through your ride, if you can justify why you were riding at 50 in a 60 he might not mark you down but if it's a case of "that's fast enough for me" you might drop a grade from Gold to Silver which is a great result in itself.
I think that's were the confusion (for want of a better word) comes in. I assume a lot of the IAM/ROSPA training is still based around the police training manual 'Roadcraft'. On the police training courses you are expected to 'make progress' all the time, especially on the actual police advanced course. It's obviously got to be like that as they often have to get a severe move on, and be able to do it under a certain amount of pressure that the average rider/driver doesn't experience, and unlikely on an IAM/ROSPA course.
That’s the issue.
