Shaping Points Advice

[vRSG60]

 

[The Grey One]

There are folks on here much more skilled in Basecamp than me so I may be corrected, but here goes.

In Basecamp all points are classified as Via Points. These can include Waypoints. A waypoint can be placed anywhere and has to be dragged from a list in to the point in the route that you want it. A vía point is created by dragging the route itself where you want. Both types of point can be switched to a shaping point which is unannounced (in the route dialogue box), which means your Nav will use them in its routing but won't tell you when you are approaching it. To do this right click on the point in the dialogue box, and select 'don't announce (shaping point)'.


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I'm far from an expert on Basecamp but I know that there is a waypoint tool that enables you to create a waypoint by clicking on the map. You can drag them from the list but you can also insert them into a route by using the green + button and then select from the list. You can also make a route with the route tool by clicking on the map and dragging the line. I prefer the Mapsource method that separates waypoints and via points and automatically makes via points unannounced. As has been pointed out numerous times waypoints work differently from via or shaping points. I much prefer to have my destination as a waypoint rather than a via, maybe Basecamp does this for you, others might advise. Personally Mapsource works for me and for my simple needs is far easier to use. I gather Basecamp works better on a Mac but i don't use one so can't comment.

John

 

[dmilne]

If you're using the Nav V then you can skip a point using the thumbwheel.[/QUOTE]

Please tell me how you do that! I have to lean forward and touch the screen... (RT LC)

Thanks.. Dave

 

[leedude03]

having just been out and tried to test a theory i have some mixed results (strange), using a zumo 660 and a zumo 550 with identical routes made in basecamp and identical maps with the units set to exactly the same preferences, i loaded the route to both units and set off, i deliberately went off route, the 660 after telling it to recalculate wanted to take me back to my missed point, the 550 also, but ignoring this the 550 once back on the route carried on as normal while the 660 kept telling me to turn around for a good mile or so untill it stopped. next i went off the same route again this time i was only a about 500 yards from destination when asked to recalculate the 660 took me back onto the road that my destination was on and turned me away from it for nearly half a mile away from my destination point to the point i had actually turned off route and then told me to make a u turn back to the destination. the 550 did not do this and wanted to take me to the destination after it recalculated, Now having not actually gotten to the destination i carried on retracing the route backwards, the 550 kept asking for me to u turn back, but the 660 stopped after a while once the distance had become greater it then plotted a totally different route to the destination, but the 550 kept trying to turn me backwards for a lot longer, this may be because the 550 is slower at recalculating than the 660.

so it appears for me at least that when a point is missed the units will try and route you back to a missed point even though the next point going forward is indeed closer. make of this what you will, i need to try it some more on a more complicated route, to make more sense of it.

Pics of the route on the units.

 

[Becksy]

Leedude03. That is very strange. Were the Via Points announced or unannounced (shaping points)?

You'd think Garmin would publish guidance as to the logic of their programming. Perhaps they don't expect bikers to be so pernickety.


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[leedude03]

there was only one anounced point, the brown flag in the pictures and start and destination anounced, the other points were shaping, apart from the point on the route that i had been routed back to via the 660 after my deviation, that as far as i am aware was no point i had set. it was the point i had taken the turn from the route. now as i said i am going to delve into this a bit more as both navs seem to give different results, maybe one of the reasons is the 550 being a lot slower to pick up on a deviation and to re calculate, i am unsure of this as more testing is needed. i put the announced point in along with shaping points to test both out.

 

[leedude03]

having re driven this route with all but start and end point announcements turned off, the 660 still tries to re route back to the missed shaping points, even when being only a few yards from destination and the last missed point being many 100s of yards in the wrong direction. the 550 on the other hand does not, it carries on going forward by finding its way after recalculation,or re routing back to the point i deviated from the route and then carries on as normal.
The 550 recalculation and re route takes more time in comparison to the 660, i would expect this with the 660 being more modern. I can not say that these results will be the same in the very new units like the 590, i dont have one to test.
i will do some more testing to see what else happens with different settings.

pic of settings

 

[(RIP) andrewgsadv]

I have a 590 and 660 and both have behaved as yours have done. Be interesting to know if same routes made in Mapsource behave the same. I only say this as all my previous routes in mapsource hardly ever misbehaved

 

[leedude03]

I have a 590 and 660 and both have behaved as yours have done. Be interesting to know if same routes made in Mapsource behave the same. I only say this as all my previous routes in mapsource hardly ever misbehaved

that's a good point, and after I have done some more tests for my own clarification, I will try making a route in mapsource and try that, as I know mapsource deals with shaping points and announcements in a different way

 

[(RIP) andrewgsadv]

Look forward to your findings leedude

 

[leedude03]

Done a little more testing today with 2 zumo 660's both set up identical one using 2 routes from basecamp and the other using 2 routes from mapsource, i tried to make the routes as identical as possible, each unit had 2 routes on it, one outward route and one return route, the basecamp routes were set with the outbound route to alert on all points and the return route to not alert. the mapsource routes were as sent no alterations could be made. the units were both set to motorcycle as was basecamp and mapsource and all oter settings were the same.
my findings are with these units set as they were, and the results may not apply to others. both units no matter what i did or where i went performed exactly the same, they both tried to send me back to a point i had missed when i deviated from the route after being prompted to recalculate, even when i was back on that very route, however once i had ignored this and carried on against its directions and got close to the next point both units carried on their merry way with no further promts or recalculations, until the next deliberate deviation, and then the same thing hapened again, only this time it kept trying to send me to the missed point for a longer period of time, this i presume was because the next point was further away, (not 100% on that as yet).
So as i see it, on the units tested and with the map and software used, at the time of testing,there is no difference between announced and unannounced points with reference to it routing you to a missed point. also there is no difference between a route sent from mapsource or basecamp in as far as this test goes.
I will be trying a couple of other things that i do believe will make a difference, i shall see.

 

[Becksy]

That's really useful info leedude. Thanks.


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[The Grey One]

Done a little more testing today with 2 zumo 660's both set up identical one using 2 routes from basecamp and the other using 2 routes from mapsource, i tried to make the routes as identical as possible, each unit had 2 routes on it, one outward route and one return route, the basecamp routes were set with the outbound route to alert on all points and the return route to not alert. the mapsource routes were as sent no alterations could be made. the units were both set to motorcycle as was basecamp and mapsource and all oter settings were the same.
my findings are with these units set as they were, and the results may not apply to others. both units no matter what i did or where i went performed exactly the same, they both tried to send me back to a point i had missed when i deviated from the route after being prompted to recalculate, even when i was back on that very route, however once i had ignored this and carried on against its directions and got close to the next point both units carried on their merry way with no further promts or recalculations, until the next deliberate deviation, and then the same thing hapened again, only this time it kept trying to send me to the missed point for a longer period of time, this i presume was because the next point was further away, (not 100% on that as yet).
So as i see it, on the units tested and with the map and software used, at the time of testing,there is no difference between announced and unannounced points with reference to it routing you to a missed point. also there is no difference between a route sent from mapsource or basecamp in as far as this test goes.
I will be trying a couple of other things that i do believe will make a difference, i shall see.

Interesting but I think you will find that points created in Mapsource are automatically unannounced with only waypoints being announced. At least this is what my Mapsource does on my 390.

John


John

 

[leedude03]

as said above these tests are done with my units and software, and with my settings. now as a rule i have recalculation turned off, i prefer to sort myself out when faced with a forced detour or even if i go off route of my own choice, i have no problem with that, some may prefer to use the units recalculation feature and thats their personal choice, the routes i have used to get the results have been short (4-5 mile) and simple, i could see that if the distances between a missed point and a point further forward on the route were large there may be a significant difference in what the unit would then do(this i have yet to test) to get around this. like i have said further testing will be done.

 

[leedude03]

Interesting but I think you will find that points created in Mapsource are automatically unannounced with only waypoints being announced. At least this is what my Mapsource does on my 390.

John



John

your point being John. as i said (the mapsource routes were as sent, no alterations could be made.) so what was sent was sent as is, the start and end were sent as way points, and others were sent as is as just shaping points.

 

[leedude03]

Quote The Grey one (Interesting but I think you will find that points created in Mapsource are automatically unannounced with only waypoints being announced).This is for those unaware of what i think the grey one was refering to, on this route pictured below you can clearly see that there are no waypoints listed on any part of the route or any mention of them in any of pictures, so you would think that they may be all shaping points, infact there will be 2 way points and these will announce, they will be the start and finish points, when the route is transfered the unit will automatically change these shaping points to waypoints, but not the others they will remain as is, shaping points, unless of course you make them waypoints.

 

[The Grey One]

Not quite what I meant but then I always use waypoints at the start and end of a route. I might add a waypoint along the way if it is somewhere I really want to go. Other than that I create via points by dragging and dropping along my intended route. In Mapsource this creates unannounced via points (unless I miss the road in which case it makes a waypoint and shows it as a green dot on the screen) I find that doing it that way ensures that my waypoints also end up in favourites which can be handy if I want to cut short my route for whatever reason

All I was trying to say was that you said you were comparing announced and announced via points and I don't think you can do that with a Mapsource route. It was not meant as a criticism, just an observation. I commend you for the effort you are putting in to increase our understanding of how these devices behave.

Keep up the good work

John

 

[leedude03]

in the first instance i was compairing 2 routes made in basecamp, one with all the points set to announce, and one with just the start and end set to announce, this was to prove whether or not the unit after deviating from the route and being told to recalculate would try to send you back to a missed point that was set to not announce, because many people on here had said, that the unit would not try to send you backwards to the missed point if that point was set not to announce. that was basicaly the test .
The second test was to try and answer a question from andrewgsadv who wondered if routes created in mapsource would behave any differently, so thats why i tried the routes from mapsource and basecamp both together to find out if they behaved the same. So as i said above i sent 2 routes one outward and one return from basecamp, one with no announcements and one with all announcements and sent two from mapsource to my other unit these routes were exactly the same, or as near as possible, i could not get them to the nearest foot.
The Results were, that no matter what software the route was created in, or whether the points were set to announce or not, The garmin 660 always tried to take you back to the missed (shaping via way or whatever one wishes to call them points) even if that point was further away than the next point going forward.

I do hope this is clear enough, i find it difficult to put things into words, and sometimes i may get a bit muddled, but dont we all.

Quote The Grey One, (All I was trying to say was that you said you were comparing announced and announced via points ) my point

Quote The Grey One (Interesting but I think you will find that points created in Mapsource are automatically unannounced with only waypoints being announced). I have looked and re read everything in this post and can not find anywhere where i said anything to the contrary to this, please point me to it if i have.

I have also corrected this Quote ( you said you were comparing announced and un announced via points ) again i can not find where i said this with reference to map source please point this out also.

John no criticism taken, but for the life of me i can not see where i have made these statements you say i have.

 

[The Grey One]

One of the real problems with posting online is the fact that there is huge scope for misunderstanding, not only the point being made, but of motives. My comment, at least in my head, was an attempt to add something to your findings. It was a tiny point and ,I admit ,comes from my pedantic tendencies. You wrote "The Results were, that no matter what software the route was created in, or whether the points were set to announce or not," All I was saying that the option to set via points to announce or not does not apply to routes made in mapsource. Hence you can only test Mapsource routes with waypoints and unannounced via points. At least this is what I have found.

John

 

[leedude03]

Quote The grey one (The Results were, that no matter what software the route was created in, or whether the points were set to announce or not) John i think that this line of text you have used was posted after you posted your query about announced and unannounced points in mapsource, but even so i would stand by this particular quote as being correct.

Quote The Grey One (All I was saying that the option to set via points to announce or not does not apply to routes made in mapsource) This is of course is correct no arguments from me, but again i have not said anything to the contrary to this, although if you are indeed being that pedantic, i probably should have said what points i was talking about (the start and finish both being way points that will announce as you know, and shaping/via points in between as you know dont announce when using mapsource to create a route.) I hope that this clarifies it.

Just as a point of interest to those who use mapsource, if you do want to turn on and off announcements in a route you have created in mapsource you could just copy and paste the route into basecamp and do it from there and then just copy and paste it back into mapsource to send it. Sorry my mistake, the last bit is incorect and should have read copy it or send it to your map folder on your unit and not into mapsource. or just send from basecamp.