the best bike i've ever ridden

[roundincircles]

Yup, I'm 90% with you on that

Every now and again though, it's fun to have a bit of power there, it's why I ride bikes and why the new KTM appeals more than the WC to me at the moment.

However, and it's a big however, I wonder if some of what you say above is more to do with size and weight [1] of the bike? My 1200 is the first 'big' bike I have owned in 35 years of riding bikes. For all the reasons you give above I have always prefered small to mid sized bikes as more fun is to be had and they are more forgiving yet at the same time more technical to ride than a big bike. Just look at the 'fun' thread in the pub, with a few exceptions all the 'fun' bikes are small
underpowered.

Andres

[1] Your 1150 excepted

I think it is about what you want from a bike. The most fun bike I have owned was a 650 KTM Duke. Completely bonkers on the back roads, as agile and fast as needed from just one cylinder! If someone had have told me 40 years ago that one day in the future I would love a single cylinder bike I would have said they were mad.

The benefit of the 1200LC power is on those long touring days with the wife on the pillion and her 36 pairs of shoes in the top box. You can use the torque to go for the overtake and make 'easy' progress. That's why the power is there impo.

I do think BMW have judged the power and torque output well. They resisted the 150 bhp plus of the Italian and Austrian bikes which have a fundamentally different character.

Lastly. The GS does fill the 'one bike nearly does it' role. And that must be it's appeal for many.
M

 

[Roberto]

Cookie,

Looks to be a very well balanced and good write up that. Thanks. Looking forward to my test even more now.

R

 

[Malvern_Beemer]

The GS does fill the 'one bike nearly does it' role. And that must be it's appeal for many.
M

Boom! You nailed it right there. Just because a bike has 125bhp doesn't mean you have to use it all the time. You're not always riding the Furka Pass and you're not always in the Dales so for those times when you need that bit more power, it sure is nice to have it.

 

[cookie]

The benefit of the 1200LC power is on those long touring days with the wife on the pillion and her 36 pairs of shoes in the top box. You can use the torque to go for the overtake and make 'easy' progress. That's why the power is there impo.

i could "go for the overtake and make 'easy' progress" with the missus on the back on an 1150

and where are all these riders using all this power, 'cos i almost never see them. the ones i see mostly dawdle around, dithering about over overtakes and getting in the way.

 

[sven]

^^^
Could do, but I don't always see the need for more bhp
Especially when you can't use all that bhp because of the road type/surface or speed limit
Surely not many people can use 125bhp on a WC riding the Furka Pass
Reminds me why I gave up fast road bikes, I could only use 30-40 % of the massive power & speed
On the 1150 I can use more of the bike's capabilities, so that equals more fun
In reality, I get the most fun in the twisties on a 53 bhp sub 90 mph capable 650cc bike & it's never wanting against twin cam 12GS's on the Dales roads
Bhp race - the GS is losing the original plot

I agree to an extent, but the advantage of more power/torque is better acceleration, which means more safe overtaking opportunities when making progress on fast A/B roads on the way to the Furka pass

I found by 2009 R1200GS lacking in this department when fully loaded with unaerodynamic expanded Vario panniers. The better acceleration of the RT makes it much better when fast touring IMHO, although three years of K1200S ownership did give me a warped sense of speed

The top gear acceleration times for the Wasserhead in MCN were very impressive and I can't wait to try the new engine.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Boom! You nailed it right there. Just because a bike has 125bhp doesn't mean you have to use it all the time. You're not always riding the Furka Pass and you're not always in the Dales so for those times when you need that bit more power, it sure is nice to have it.

Tell me where 125-150bhp is useful

A 1100/1150GS will cruise down the m/way @90mph, showing 5000rpm and 90mph in reality is about tops, unless you want a tug

Even in Europe, speeds over 90mph are going to get you a major fine and in most countries they are clamping down big time

Once you hit the back roads, you probably can't do more than 70mph and as the roads get narrower/twistier and climb in altitude, you're probably down to an average of 50mph

I remember being in the Dolomites about 10 years ago, we were doing one of the passes (Pordoi or Sella perhaps) and we'd dumped our luggage at the hotel and were out for a hoon

We came across a couple of Italians ahead on Honda Dominators, so we caught them up and had a dabble.

The GS would pull away on the short straights, having a 40bhp power advantage, but couldn't carry the corner speed that the 600cc Honda had, so they would retake the lead.

We stopped for a chat with them at the Pass cafe and had a laugh about it

Sure the GS was better on lower roads, than the 45bhp Honda and the 85bhp of the 1150GS was adequate for nearly all events - a salutory was lesson was learnt that day - power isn't everything and about 85-100bhp, in a torquey engine was the most I'd ever need or use

So...............anything over 100bhp is completely useless (except for a quick, occasional power rush and then going fast in a straight line becomes a bit.......pointless)

 

[red1]

Tell me where 125-150bhp is useful

A 1100/1150GS will cruise down the m/way @90mph, showing 5000rpm and 90mph in reality is about tops, unless you want a tug

Even in Europe, speeds over 90mph are going to get you a major fine and in most countries they are clamping down big time

Once you hit the back roads, you probably can't do more than 70mph and as the roads get narrower/twistier and climb in altitude, you're probably down to an average of 50mph

I remember being in the Dolomites about 10 years ago, we were doing one of the passes (Pordoi or Sella perhaps) and we'd dumped our luggage at the hotel and were out for a hoon

We came across a couple of Italians ahead on Honda Dominators, so we caught them up and had a dabble.

The GS would pull away on the short straights, having a 40bhp power advantage, but couldn't carry the corner speed that the 600cc Honda had, so they would retake the lead.

We stopped for a chat with them at the Pass cafe and had a laugh about it

Sure the GS was better on lower roads, than the 45bhp Honda and the 85bhp of the 1150GS was adequate for nearly all events - a salutory was lesson was learnt that day - power isn't everything and about 85-100bhp, in a torquey engine was the most I'd ever need or use

So...............anything over 100bhp is completely useless (except for a quick, occasional power rush and then going fast in a straight line becomes a bit.......pointless)

Absolutely 100% correct.

As written in the Holy Book of Johnny in Boxers!

 

[APE]

JB - agree with your comments on power but I think the real benefit of a 1200 TC or LC over an 1150 is the ride and handling.

Best riding I do by miles are on mountain roads on the continent - I've done them on an 1150 and a 1200 - the power difference is irrelevent but the 1200 goes around quicker and with less effort - so I'm less tired by the end of the day.

The 1150 is a barge of a bike - I love the flat twin and most aspects of the bike but prefer a more nimble package.

Hence no itch to try a 1200 LC - its actually heavier than a TC and the extra power doesnt really matter to me either

 

[Rod]

I think you are all far too hung up on quoted power figures.......who gives a f..ck what the number is as long as the bike is fun to ride.
I've ridden the K1300S (160bhp) several times, and don't enjoy it at all.......whereas I've owned a Monster 1100S (95bhp) for 10,000 miles and absolutely loved it, including a big Alpine trip. However, where the Monster was not such fun was on bumpy roads, that's where the Dynamic ESA is great, push a button to suite the road, brilliant use of technology. I'd love a KTM 690 Duke, but as I can only have one bike, it's just too focused. Like it or not, the LC GS, KTM 1190 & Multi 1200 are great all round bikes, and that is why this sector of the market is growing, bikers in the UK are finally realising they are more fun than sports bikes on the road.....and the average age of bikers is getting older, but that's another side to the debate.
I do agree though, that the appeal of riding a slightly left field bike is nice, and that has been lost, but I can accept that in the name of progress.
So.....ride what gives you pleasure, whether that is an 1150 or LC GS, or anything else........
And anyone who quotes the weight difference between the TC 1200 & LC GS should ride one. The new bike feels way lighter.......

 

[2 wheel humvee]

^^^
Could do, but I don't always see the need for more bhp
Especially when you can't use all that bhp because of the road type/surface or speed limit
Surely not many people can use 125bhp on a WC riding the Furka Pass
Reminds me why I gave up fast road bikes, I could only use 30-40 % of the massive power & speed
On the 1150 I can use more of the bike's capabilities, so that equals more fun
In reality, I get the most fun in the twisties on a 53 bhp sub 90 mph capable 650cc bike & it's never wanting against twin cam 12GS's on the Dales roads
Bhp race - the GS is losing the original plot

If it's the most fun why are you selling the 650 then

Nope

But all these Adv bikes are just going down the roadbike route nowadays as they have mass market appeal
More power
More speed
More gadgets
More bling

Originally I bought a GS because it was different, a bit left field

I just think I will stay in GS oblivion, on a 1150 GSA just to be different from the herd

Enjoy the new WC, however I don't think it's for me - the more actual reports I read from trusted friends & riders, the less I am impressed & my initial interest is waning

So you cancelled the test ride and now based upon forum banter you've cancelled your order too?

i could "go for the overtake and make 'easy' progress" with the missus on the back on an 1150

and where are all these riders using all this power, 'cos i almost never see them. the ones i see mostly dawdle around, dithering about over overtakes and getting in the way.

More power and torque will almost always make the "go for the overtake and make 'easy' progress" faster,easier,safer no?
Hard to disagree with the second part, but you are rather good at making easy progress

I agree to an extent, but the advantage of more power/torque is better acceleration, which means more safe overtaking opportunities when making progress on fast A/B roads on the way to the Furka pass

I found by 2009 R1200GS lacking in this department when fully loaded with unaerodynamic expanded Vario panniers. The better acceleration of the RT makes it much better when fast touring IMHO, although three years of K1200S ownership did give me a warped sense of speed

The top gear acceleration times for the Wasserhead in MCN were very impressive and I can't wait to try the new engine.

Agreed, I found top gear acceleration on the new bike brisk and effortless, it would leave a TC for dead

Tell me where 125-150bhp is useful

A 1100/1150GS will cruise down the m/way @90mph, showing 5000rpm and 90mph in reality is about tops, unless you want a tug

Even in Europe, speeds over 90mph are going to get you a major fine and in most countries they are clamping down big time

Once you hit the back roads, you probably can't do more than 70mph and as the roads get narrower/twistier and climb in altitude, you're probably down to an average of 50mph

I remember being in the Dolomites about 10 years ago, we were doing one of the passes (Pordoi or Sella perhaps) and we'd dumped our luggage at the hotel and were out for a hoon

We came across a couple of Italians ahead on Honda Dominators, so we caught them up and had a dabble.

The GS would pull away on the short straights, having a 40bhp power advantage, but couldn't carry the corner speed that the 600cc Honda had, so they would retake the lead.

We stopped for a chat with them at the Pass cafe and had a laugh about it

Sure the GS was better on lower roads, than the 45bhp Honda and the 85bhp of the 1150GS was adequate for nearly all events - a salutory was lesson was learnt that day - power isn't everything and about 85-100bhp, in a torquey engine was the most I'd ever need or use

So...............anything over 100bhp is completely useless (except for a quick, occasional power rush and then going fast in a straight line becomes a bit.......pointless)

See answers above, in gear flexibility, top gear roll on acceleration, the ability to use the increased power and torque to further exploit opportunities, of course you may not always be in the mood to ride that way but it's nice to know the ability is there, like a 33 litre tank on your 1150 it's not always necessary to brim it
Anything over 100 bhp is useless is easy to say when you're 15bhp short
If it's not for you then so be it,tell you what you could always go and buy one and in 3 months time sell it and feel qualified to slate it because you've owned one

pigeon,pigeon,pigeon cat,pigeon,pigeon

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

If it's the most fun why are you selling the 650 then

It's the most fun for the plethora of B roads I have, literally on my doorstep and i'm selling to probaly get a XCountry version which with Tourances on it will be equally brilliant as the XChallenge

You've followed the XChallenge, on knobblies around on the Peaks minor roads & it performs very well

I don't offroad the XChallenge anymore

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

So you cancelled the test ride and now based upon forum banter you've cancelled your order too?


Anything over 100 bhp is useless is easy to say when you're 15bhp short
If it's not for you then so be it,tell you what you could always go and buy one and in 3 months time sell it and feel qualified to slate it because you've owned one

pigeon,pigeon,pigeon cat,pigeon,pigeon

Ooo cutting

Testride postponed, due to snow

No order in....yet

Will I eat my words...........probably

Having been out on the 1150 this week, after 6 months off................yep i'm still in love and it never fails to put a smile on my face, even though it's heavy BUT still 5kgs lighter and not as heavy as a 12GSA

 

[Count]

I think you are all far too hung up on quoted power figures.......who gives a f..ck what the number is as long as the bike is fun to ride.
I've ridden the K1300S (160bhp) several times, and don't enjoy it at all.......whereas I've owned a Monster 1100S (95bhp) for 10,000 miles and absolutely loved it, including a big Alpine trip. However, where the Monster was not such fun was on bumpy roads, that's where the Dynamic ESA is great, push a button to suite the road, brilliant use of technology. I'd love a KTM 690 Duke, but as I can only have one bike, it's just too focused. Like it or not, the LC GS, KTM 1190 & Multi 1200 are great all round bikes, and that is why this sector of the market is growing, bikers in the UK are finally realising they are more fun than sports bikes on the road.....and the average age of bikers is getting older, but that's another side to the debate.
I do agree though, that the appeal of riding a slightly left field bike is nice, and that has been lost, but I can accept that in the name of progress.
So.....ride what gives you pleasure, whether that is an 1150 or LC GS, or anything else........
And anyone who quotes the weight difference between the TC 1200 & LC GS should ride one. The new bike feels way lighter.......

I'd echo this, especially that the bike feels very light and nimble. Given my daughter took one look at it and exclaimed "it's huge!", especially next to a "normal" sized bike. To ride though the size/weight is not noticeable against something way smaller. I also had a Monster in the past and that was a blast but I wouldn't tour on it. It had nowhere near as much power as what I'm riding now but I never felt lost for grunt on UK roads, other things held me up, not the bike.

 

[NorthernBoy]

Tell me where 125-150bhp is useful

Pretty much everywhere. It's a rare trip on my 2008 where I'd not have wanted a bit more top end.

Just because it's not useful to you, with your style of riding, is no reason to assume that it's the same for others.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Just because it's not useful to you, with your style of riding, is no reason to assume that it's the same for others.

Fair comment

 

[red1]

Pretty much everywhere. It's a rare trip on my 2008 where I'd not have wanted a bit more top end.

If that's a general feeling amongst the toilet owners I'd have thought the Multistrada would have been the weapon of choice considering the GS is now a 95% road machine with few pretensions of off-roadability and in the same niche as an MS.

 

[NorthernBoy]

If that's a general feeling amongst the toilet owners I'd have thought the Multistrada would have been the weapon of choice considering the GS is now a 95% road machine with few pretensions of off-roadability and in the same niche as an MS.

Well you'd have thought wrong then. I like the multistrada, but prefer the overal lpackage of the GS still. There are still going to be plenty of times when I'd like even more power, but it's not the only consideration.

To put a bit more detail on that, I was more comfortable riding the GS up to its limits (which icludes, n the right circumstances, riding it off the edge of the rear tyre) that I was on the MS, which meant that in circumstances when I actually wanted tp ush as hard as I could, I'd probably be faster on the GS.

Most of what makes a bike the right choice, for me at least, is feel, it's the subjective things, about comfort, just joy of riding it, and how "right" it feels.

I bought a car last summer that on paper (and after a few hours test drive) seemed perfect for me. I went from an RS4 to a new 911 GTS 4, and have just found that it doesn't quite float my boat like I hoped that it would do. It is the same wit the multistrada. Great, and I'd happily live with it but, for me, just not quite the right thing this year.

 

[cookie]

More power and torque will almost always make the "go for the overtake and make 'easy' progress" faster,easier,safer no?

it will make it faster, but it should not make it safer. surely one would leave a bit in reserve however much power one has?

if you're overtaking faster, you're going to get in the shit faster too if something unexpected happens.


i am the last person (well, not quite apparently) to argue against having more power in general. it's just that like JB, i'm not quite sure what I am going to do with it. i very rarely use anything like full power on the bike i've got and as you kindly pointed out, i don't have much trouble making progress.

the power bump from the original GS to the TC was nice, not because it made another 5/10bhp, but because it made the engine much nicer and allowed it to rev without feeling like a cement mixer gone wild. i think i am disappointed that the latest revision does not seem to have improved the feel, though it certainly has a made a fantastic job of upping the poke.

maybe i should take one out in the dry, and put my earplugs in

 

[cookie]

Tell me where 125-150bhp is useful

A 1100/1150GS will cruise down the m/way @90mph, showing 5000rpm and 90mph in reality is about tops, unless you want a tug

Even in Europe, speeds over 90mph are going to get you a major fine and in most countries they are clamping down big time

Once you hit the back roads, you probably can't do more than 70mph and as the roads get narrower/twistier and climb in altitude, you're probably down to an average of 50mph

I remember being in the Dolomites about 10 years ago, we were doing one of the passes (Pordoi or Sella perhaps) and we'd dumped our luggage at the hotel and were out for a hoon

We came across a couple of Italians ahead on Honda Dominators, so we caught them up and had a dabble.

The GS would pull away on the short straights, having a 40bhp power advantage, but couldn't carry the corner speed that the 600cc Honda had, so they would retake the lead.

We stopped for a chat with them at the Pass cafe and had a laugh about it

Sure the GS was better on lower roads, than the 45bhp Honda and the 85bhp of the 1150GS was adequate for nearly all events - a salutory was lesson was learnt that day - power isn't everything and about 85-100bhp, in a torquey engine was the most I'd ever need or use

So...............anything over 100bhp is completely useless (except for a quick, occasional power rush and then going fast in a straight line becomes a bit.......pointless )

being realistic, i find it hard to disagree with any of this, especially the last bit, and i own a 115bhp bike

 

[Engineer]

I think that too many people get too hung up on the spec of the new bike, 125bhp, leds, dynamic esa, traction control, plastic etc.

What really matters is that BMW have put together a really, really nice bike which is a joy to ride, just like they did in the past with the 1100,1150 and 1200.

Bikes don't last forever and technology moves forward, you can stay with the old technology is that's your preference but at least try this fantastic new bike because it is as good, if not better than the old ones were in their time.