pinkytiff
Registered user
Nope, still not convinced, still can't think of a single time when I've needed more power to make me safer
Frensham Common a few years ago
the best bike i've ever ridden
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Frensham Common a few years ago
It was like this when the new 1200 came out in 04 then the GSA then the twin cam etc and there was always someone who preferred what they already had and there was always someone who would appear out of the blue and post like mad about the new model being the the best thing out there. Deja vu just gets tiresome dude
Hi Count,glad to see your lovin it. bought myself my first twin since 1977 , a GS1100, and guess what, love it to bits,but i must say it,s a good job i bought it before i came on the forum,because some of the comments do cut a bit. Just remember a broad spectrum of opinion makes an interesting bike.And that also applies to most of the owners. ENJOY.
so the extra power allows for overtakes in more difficult situations than a lower powered bike can manage, thus equalising the risk
your exposure is almost exactly the same. you are no safer, probably less as slowing down will take longer should the need arise.
oh, i forgot. you have fantastic monobloc brakes too
sure, more power can get you out of trouble occasionally, but it can get you into the shit really easy too, hence the need for traction control now.
Count
Registered user
I might be out of the blue but I have no illusions it's the best thing out there, haven't posted as such either. I have had some banter with the legacy-is-best gang of course. I figure there may be issues with a new bike, I'm cool with that, it wouldn't compete otherwise in the current market if it didn't have the latest tech and there may be problems.
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Count, don't rise to it. They ride old BMW GS Charley and Ewan bikes. I have a BSA 650 and was thinking of getting an 1100 or 1150 but who needs the extra power and electronics that could go wrong with these new bikes, plus the whole boxer engine design needs proving in my opinion.
Technology aids safety
In what way? Traction control?
No good when the front end lets go. Ok, it'll stop the rear wheel spinning on the power, but it won't save you anymore than old tech if you hit diesel. Infact it's really only any good at reigning in all those horsepowers
Multi programme modes for different conditions? Never needed it on the wheezebox
Abs, old ones have it and it works well.
Esc, not really a safety measure and my manual adjustment won't revert back to standard mode without asking.
What other safety tech have I missed?
No doubts it's a better sportsbike than the old bike, but safety is a lame arguement
It may even be a better tourer, but it'll never be as fast or as comfy as a k1300GT
Worth noting that it's not as comfortable as a First Class seat on Emirates if you are traveling the world. Play it safe, save up for a A380.
Worth noting that it's not as comfortable as a First Class seat on Emirates if you are traveling the world. Play it safe, save up for a A380.
I don't like flying
The last two tours I have done in a porsche boxster (pre traction control
). More comfy than the bike for sure and easier to cover the miles. I've enjoyed my bike tours, but I've always prefered getting off the beaten track and making the getting there relaxing.I spend my life in a car doing 80-90 on motorways, holidays are for cross country play
sven
Registered user
Nope, still not convinced, still can't think of a single time when I've needed more power to make me safer
That's because you're judging your overtakes (quite rightly so) based on the power you have available.
A wheezy old 1150, especially two-up, cannot overtake at A-road speeds as quickly as a 1200, never mind a new LC or something like a K1200S. This means that there are times when you can't take an overtaking opportunity which is perfectly safe on a faster bike.
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so the extra power allows for overtakes in more difficult situations than a lower powered bike can manage, thus equalising the risk
your exposure is almost exactly the same. you are no safer, probably less as slowing down will take longer should the need arise.
oh, i forgot. you have fantastic monobloc brakes too
sure, more power can get you out of trouble occasionally, but it can get you into the shit really easy too, hence the need for traction control now.
In a nutshell
Anyway, I'm off out now for a test ride on the WC - I'll let you know how many more overtakes I managed compared to what I could have done on my 05 1200.........
Andres
Andres
I wouldn't worry about it Count, it strikes me that though most folks here are helpful and positive, there are a hardcore of 5 or 6 owners of older GS's who consistently contribute posts reeking of sour grapes like some sort of childish jealousy. Ive heard it all; The bike is plastic, it's got more power than it needs, it's technology is pointless, it's handling is suspect, it has a deadly hidden flaw etc etc. They say they don't give a sh1t but spend a lot of effort trying to criticise the product in the face of people they know rate the product and have invested in it. I hope they are not like that in real life, it would make them pretty obnoxious - then again that would explain why they have lots of time on their hands to troll.
It's a shame, on the road bikers tend to show appreciative brotherhood regardless of bike brand or style. Two wheels good. Here they act like cuunts
They are vociferous, and bullying, but everyone sees through it. I'd ignore their corrosive envy.
Well, it didn't take you long to join in with the name calling etc. All of a few weeks on the forum and you're an expert. Well done!
sven
Registered user
so the extra power allows for overtakes in more difficult situations than a lower powered bike can manage, thus equalising the risk
your exposure is almost exactly the same. you are no safer, probably less as slowing down will take longer should the need arise.
oh, i forgot. you have fantastic monobloc brakes too
sure, more power can get you out of trouble occasionally, but it can get you into the shit really easy too, hence the need for traction control now.
Yes, equalizing the risk to the same acceptably safe level, so whilst you're still sitting behind a few cars waiting for the safe overtaking opportunity on an 80bhp bike, the 115bhp bike may have had an opportunity to get past those cars safely and is now making progress whilst you're still stuck behind a 45mph procession of slow moving cars.
I know harder braking may be required if overtaking into a gap, but that's what brakes are for, and again, if there isn't time to quickly overtake and brake safely into the gap, I won't overtake.
What many of the newer folk fail to perhaps appreciate is the heritage of the GS and the owners that have been around here some for years. Original GS's were tough, dependable motorcycles with bags of character, they could be offroaded, abused and could be worked on to a degree at the side of the road. To those that have existed around those bikes at that time and seen the airhead to 11xx to 1200 transition, and now this next step, it is inevitable that they will have views on where the bike is going today and there will be some cynicism; as the bike becomes more intricate and technical that moves away from the basic fundamentals of the original bike.
BMW's business development ploy clearly would to be to try and lure in the ex-sportsbike crowd. How to do that? Well, more power of course. BMW are there to sell bikes and the competition had already upped the ante. Anyway it is too natural that as those people get on board with their own outlook so there'll be differences in opinion.
The points about the power are actually interesting to me. I adore the lazy nature of my 12 and I've read posts talking about how some of that is lost in the new bike. It doesn't make it worse- but maybe just not for me and my particular riding style. I had to postpone my test but I'm going to do it soon so will be able to give that verdict from my personal view.
For me the jealousy thing is just a red herring for the most part, there will be trolls here who enjoy the sport but in the same respect it is an easy get out for LC owners to say 'oh they're just jealous' rather than to try and understand the points being made.
Going back to the reliability element, with the ongoing evolution towards technology one wonders just how many 'side of the road' repairs may be possible as we go forward. Even on my 1200 last year I had brake failure, ABS and traction control warnings which I actually rode on for 3,000 miles with them present, but I suspect some folks wouldn't do it and that would be the end of their trip. This was also down to something as small as faulty sensors. It does make me think exactly what will be happen on the new LC with ride by wire technology as an example. (How long before that digital dash comes up with 'Error 101: refer to dealer') and refuses to do anything..
Of course you can't ignore that for many that may be a worthy trade off. Bikes today are seldom sole sources of transport. Those that can afford new LC's won't in theory have to worry about them getting old and will replace at the end of the warranty. The downside might be only as much as a spoiled holiday (or an adventurised holiday)
It also seems to me that the GS is moving into RT territory- adding cruise control and making touring editions. People snigger at RT's as they are 'for old people', pipe and slippers, yada yada yada. I think the new RT may be an absolute winner, but I'll bet there's a community of people here that would have the GS but wouldn't be seen dead on an RT. Ringing any bells, anyone?
BMW's business development ploy clearly would to be to try and lure in the ex-sportsbike crowd. How to do that? Well, more power of course. BMW are there to sell bikes and the competition had already upped the ante. Anyway it is too natural that as those people get on board with their own outlook so there'll be differences in opinion.
The points about the power are actually interesting to me. I adore the lazy nature of my 12 and I've read posts talking about how some of that is lost in the new bike. It doesn't make it worse- but maybe just not for me and my particular riding style. I had to postpone my test but I'm going to do it soon so will be able to give that verdict from my personal view.
For me the jealousy thing is just a red herring for the most part, there will be trolls here who enjoy the sport but in the same respect it is an easy get out for LC owners to say 'oh they're just jealous' rather than to try and understand the points being made.
Going back to the reliability element, with the ongoing evolution towards technology one wonders just how many 'side of the road' repairs may be possible as we go forward. Even on my 1200 last year I had brake failure, ABS and traction control warnings which I actually rode on for 3,000 miles with them present, but I suspect some folks wouldn't do it and that would be the end of their trip. This was also down to something as small as faulty sensors. It does make me think exactly what will be happen on the new LC with ride by wire technology as an example. (How long before that digital dash comes up with 'Error 101: refer to dealer') and refuses to do anything..
Of course you can't ignore that for many that may be a worthy trade off. Bikes today are seldom sole sources of transport. Those that can afford new LC's won't in theory have to worry about them getting old and will replace at the end of the warranty. The downside might be only as much as a spoiled holiday (or an adventurised holiday)
It also seems to me that the GS is moving into RT territory- adding cruise control and making touring editions. People snigger at RT's as they are 'for old people', pipe and slippers, yada yada yada. I think the new RT may be an absolute winner, but I'll bet there's a community of people here that would have the GS but wouldn't be seen dead on an RT. Ringing any bells, anyone?
What many of the newer folk fail to perhaps appreciate is the heritage of the GS and the owners that have been around here some for years. Original GS's were tough, dependable motorcycles with bags of character, they could be offroaded, abused and could be worked on to a degree at the side of the road. To those that have existed around those bikes at that time and seen the airhead to 11xx to 1200 transition, and now this next step, it is inevitable that they will have views on where the bike is going today and there will be some cynicism; as the bike becomes more intricate and technical that moves away from the basic fundamentals of the original bike.
BMW's business development ploy clearly would to be to try and lure in the ex-sportsbike crowd. How to do that? Well, more power of course. BMW are there to sell bikes and the competition had already upped the ante. Anyway it is too natural that as those people get on board with their own outlook so there'll be differences in opinion.
The points about the power are actually interesting to me. I adore the lazy nature of my 12 and I've read posts talking about how some of that is lost in the new bike. It doesn't make it worse- but maybe just not for me and my particular riding style. I had to postpone my test but I'm going to do it soon so will be able to give that verdict from my personal view.
For me the jealousy thing is just a red herring for the most part, there will be trolls here who enjoy the sport but in the same respect it is an easy get out for LC owners to say 'oh they're just jealous' rather than to try and understand the points being made.
Going back to the reliability element, with the ongoing evolution towards technology one wonders just how many 'side of the road' repairs may be possible as we go forward. Even on my 1200 last year I had brake failure, ABS and traction control warnings which I actually rode on for 3,000 miles with them present, but I suspect some folks wouldn't do it and that would be the end of their trip. This was also down to something as small as faulty sensors. It does make me think exactly what will be happen on the new LC with ride by wire technology as an example. (How long before that digital dash comes up with 'Error 101: refer to dealer') and refuses to do anything..
Of course you can't ignore that for many that may be a worthy trade off. Bikes today are seldom sole sources of transport. Those that can afford new LC's won't in theory have to worry about them getting old and will replace at the end of the warranty. The downside might be only as much as a spoiled holiday (or an adventurised holiday)
It also seems to me that the GS is moving into RT territory- adding cruise control and making touring editions. People snigger at RT's as they are 'for old people', pipe and slippers, yada yada yada. I think the new RT may be an absolute winner, but I'll bet there's a community of people here that would have the GS but wouldn't be seen dead on an RT. Ringing any bells, anyone?
Very eloquent, well reasoned and sensible post
Summed it up for me, well done Rob
What many of the newer folk fail to perhaps appreciate is the heritage of the GS and the owners that have been around here some for years. Original GS's were tough, dependable motorcycles with bags of character, they could be offroaded, abused and could be worked on to a degree at the side of the road. To those that have existed around those bikes at that time and seen the airhead to 11xx to 1200 transition, and now this next step, it is inevitable that they will have views on where the bike is going today and there will be some cynicism; as the bike becomes more intricate and technical that moves away from the basic fundamentals of the original bike.
BMW's business development ploy clearly would to be to try and lure in the ex-sportsbike crowd. How to do that? Well, more power of course. BMW are there to sell bikes and the competition had already upped the ante. Anyway it is too natural that as those people get on board with their own outlook so there'll be differences in opinion.
The points about the power are actually interesting to me. I adore the lazy nature of my 12 and I've read posts talking about how some of that is lost in the new bike. It doesn't make it worse- but maybe just not for me and my particular riding style. I had to postpone my test but I'm going to do it soon so will be able to give that verdict from my personal view.
For me the jealousy thing is just a red herring for the most part, there will be trolls here who enjoy the sport but in the same respect it is an easy get out for LC owners to say 'oh they're just jealous' rather than to try and understand the points being made.
Going back to the reliability element, with the ongoing evolution towards technology one wonders just how many 'side of the road' repairs may be possible as we go forward. Even on my 1200 last year I had brake failure, ABS and traction control warnings which I actually rode on for 3,000 miles with them present, but I suspect some folks wouldn't do it and that would be the end of their trip. This was also down to something as small as faulty sensors. It does make me think exactly what will be happen on the new LC with ride by wire technology as an example. (How long before that digital dash comes up with 'Error 101: refer to dealer') and refuses to do anything..
Of course you can't ignore that for many that may be a worthy trade off. Bikes today are seldom sole sources of transport. Those that can afford new LC's won't in theory have to worry about them getting old and will replace at the end of the warranty. The downside might be only as much as a spoiled holiday (or an adventurised holiday)
It also seems to me that the GS is moving into RT territory- adding cruise control and making touring editions. People snigger at RT's as they are 'for old people', pipe and slippers, yada yada yada. I think the new RT may be an absolute winner, but I'll bet there's a community of people here that would have the GS but wouldn't be seen dead on an RT. Ringing any bells, anyone?
Your points are coherent, and well made, and if all comment on here was as intelligently put then it would be a much better forum for it. After all it would be a dull place if everyone shared the same view.
But this is the new LC board, and if ultimately the new bike doesn't meet your needs or preferences; the lazy style engine, the user serviceable engineering or simply design aesthetics then that's ok, but fortunately there are the Hexhead and oilhead boards where advocacy for those aspects will be more at home.
The LC has evolved, like any product it has to in order to maintain sales. And the MCIA stats suggest that BMW have got it right. They are successfully attracting riders like me who have previously considered the GS but discounted it for being a bit agricultural and wheezy. Inevitably these changes are upsetting those who would have preferred a different evolution. But posting this dissatisfaction in a user forum for those interested in the bike and getting the most out of ownership isn't always helpful.
I hasten to note your comments though don't fit the 'unhelpful' category I'm criticising.
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Hold on,.before you start spouting the sour grapes bollocks, you are assuming I choose an 1150 because I can't afford something better. That's where you're arguement falls at the first post.
It's that attitude of "I've spent the most money, therefore my bike if far superior to your shitty old one" that is really sad.
Nobody is bullying,, it's a bit of fun and a debate on whether bm have taken taken the right route by making the bike over complicated for the sake of keeping up with the jones's.
I think if you read back I have stated on a number of occassions the the LC is without doubt faster and better handling, but on the flip side, I question the need for all the power, the durability/cost of using off road.
So the new GS gets you to your destination quicker, who gives a feck. I could buy a 1500 quid zzr1100 that will get me there sooner.
The gs has always been about being different, quirky, doing things in it's own way. The new one is just another blob of plastic on the kerbside at matlock bath imho of course
alp
Registered user
I'm also one of the 'new to GS' buyers, much to the relief of the Ocean Sales guys who have tried unsucessfully for years to get me to part with my cash for one of the previous GSs. I'm now a happy BMW GS bunny who likes his bikes more refined than previous GSs and using as much modern technology as is available. I acknowledge that not all buyers think like me, hell I have loads (majority?) of friends who wouldn't even go into a BMW showroom at all and think I've 'lost it'. I learned long ago to suit myself and not others.
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