Touratech - Again

[silver fox]

As i said before(and i know this isn't the answer to the problem, but it depends if you can wait till hell freezes over for them to change their mind and sell direct to the UK) You can always ask one of us to order and send the goods to you at the same cost we get them Postage paid by yourselves of course

 

[Crapaud]

Nick Plumb from Touratech gave a talk at the Princetown meet on Saturday night. He was asked about the cost of the Dakar and who pays his fees. He replied: "You lot! Whenever you buy anything from Touratech UK". So there you have it straight from the horse's mouth.

I asked the other chap from Touratech why there is a price difference and he explained that it is their mark up on the prices from Germany. I asked politely what was the use of Touratech UK if all they are doing is adding extra cost into the process and he claimed that it speeded up delivery!

I mentioned this thread and he believes that Touratech Germany are not in breach of EU law as they are not refusing to sell to anyone in Britain but they are merely refusing to offer a mail order service to Britain.

Finallly, I mentioned that I had problems fitting my Touratech 41lt tank in the morning. His reply "I know, we were sitting in our van watching your for an hour". "Well thanks for all your help and customer support!" said I.

Sid

 

[Thunder]

N

I asked the other chap from Touratech why there is a price difference and he explained that it is their mark up on the prices from Germany. I asked politely what was the use of Touratech UK if all they are doing is adding extra cost into the process and he claimed that it speeded up delivery!

I bet that got a laugh!!!

One other factor to consider when we are thinking about TT UK mark up is if you order an item through a dealer it is supplied to you by said dealer at the RRP provided by TT UK, just the same as TT UK will charge you if you order from them, but of course being business the dealer gets the item at a lower price so he can add his mark up.

Nothing wrong with that, as I said it's business but it's bloody annoying considering the increased costs of dealing with a UK distributor.

As for the speedy delivery, a "friend" in Southern Ireland ordered some stuff recently direct from Germany at the reduced prices, it will be interesting to see how long they take to arrive!

 

[Trippy]

Finallly, I mentioned that I had problems fitting my Touratech 41lt tank in the morning. His reply "I know, we were sitting in our van watching your for an hour".

That alone is a good enough reason not to buy something from them again let alone the fact they are according to the majority ripping you off.
Sitting back in your van and watching a guy get hot and bothered struggling for an hour to fit one of your products and not offer to help
Pity none of us will be in the position to drive past him in the desert one day when he's broken down and give him a cheery wave.

 

[Hamster]

Pity none of us will be in the position to drive past him in the desert one day when he's broken down and give him a cheery wave.

We might be in the position to wave to him at the Job Centre after the business folds due to lack of sales though

 

[Paul S]

Nick Plumb from Touratech gave a talk at the Princetown meet on Saturday night. He was asked about the cost of the Dakar and who pays his fees. He replied: "You lot! Whenever you buy anything from Touratech UK". So there you have it straight from the horse's mouth.

I asked the other chap from Touratech why there is a price difference and he explained that it is their mark up on the prices from Germany. I asked politely what was the use of Touratech UK if all they are doing is adding extra cost into the process and he claimed that it speeded up delivery!

Sid

That just about sums it up - a complete rip off

The money I was going to spend on Touratech bits is now going towards a set of Wilber suspension units from www.everyaccessory.co.uk

Wilbers are of course made in Germany and yet every accessory can sell them for less than the price shown on the German web site and offer free set up and coffee to boot Strange how Touratech UK cannot offer a simular service!!!!

 

[Berin]

I mentioned this thread and he believes that Touratech Germany are not in breach of EU law as they are not refusing to sell to anyone in Britain but they are merely refusing to offer a mail order service to Britain.
Sid

Only the case if they didn't offer a mail order service to any European country - but since they do that's bollocks.

 

[TERRY RYAN]

so if you was a customer in Southern Ireland and want touratech parts and phone
TT UK (NOT THAT YOU WOULD LIKE) would they do mail order or would they refer you to TT Germany ?????

Sid the reason why they watched you is because Maybe they don't know the product enough to help you fit them maybe they are just dare I say it customer service People

 

[Rich C]

Paul

Was reading with some interest last night this thread you’ve started and whilst most of this has been covered here's my two pennyworth.

I’ve been pondering on this one overnight and thinking of it in terms of the experience I have with my employer buying and selling across most countries in Europe. I can actually think of no examples of companies in my industry who have a flat pricing policy across Europe. All markets differ to some extent and manufacturers modify their prices to suit, based on all sorts of factors such as local competition or the relative wealth of that market. Other factors also influence this such as import duties as well. Importantly don’t forget, people are in business to make a profit so prices will be pushed as high as the market will stand.

Now the internet of course has meant that what could previously have remained a discreet national price list has become readily available information for the end users of the products in question. This is how you’ve managed to discover that we have to pay more for TT products in the UK than it seems anyone else in Europe. Now my gut feel is that TT haven’t actually done anything illegal here but I’m not a lawyer and you need someone of this ilk to confirm this. You could argue that they have done something of questionable commercial sense but it’s their business to do with as they see fit. I don’t think there’s anything in European law that can force them to sell at a certain price in a certain market. The sprit of the treaties you mention is certainly to have one common market without boundaries but in practice it doesn’t force people to sell where they don’t want to at that price. I therefore think they can do as they please and they would argue that they have set up a distribution network that best serves the market and the price list reflects the cost of doing that.

Going back to the questionable sense of the distribution deal they have in place with TT UK. It seems likely to me that NP is being done a big favour by TT for reasons we are not close enough to understand. Perhaps he’s a mate of someone senior at TT, do they see him as a good source of PR and want to keep him on side. Perhaps the market in the UK is small compared to some other European countries and this solution offered TT an easy no hassle way of selling here. Putting another margin in the chain would obviously push up prices and suppress the overall sales level but perhaps they’re not bothered about that. Giving a poor quality distributor exclusive rights to sell your products in a country is an odd choice because ultimately their inadequacies always reflect badly on your products and your company. We’re only guessing here of course but it’s an illogical choice commercially in my opinion.

I think on balance though it is what it is, however a bit of pressure may highlight the issue within TT and get the missed sales and bad publicity noticed and on the agenda for discussion. NP’s attitude and responses at Princetown, assuming reported correctly, are a disgrace and are not suprisingly a reflection of the sort of attitude it is often reported that that business has towards it’s customers. The best thing people can do is vote with their feet and buy products elsewhere. Ultimately this may force TT to change their distribution arrangements.

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

Paul

Was reading with some interest last night this thread you’ve started and whilst most of this has been covered here's my two pennyworth.

I’ve been pondering on this one overnight and thinking of it in terms of the experience I have with my employer buying and selling across most countries in Europe. I can actually think of no examples of companies in my industry who have a flat pricing policy across Europe. All markets differ to some extent and manufacturers modify their prices to suit, based on all sorts of factors such as local competition or the relative wealth of that market. Other factors also influence this such as import duties as well. Importantly don’t forget, people are in business to make a profit so prices will be pushed as high as the market will stand.

.

But isn't the main point here the fact that TT (D) refuse to mail-order to the UK only. They will happily mail-order to anywhere else in Europe?

I think most people accept that prices may vary accross Europe and, as you say, that is a comercial decision for the company involved - for better or for worse.

Andres

 

[Thunder]

I bet that got a laugh!!!

As for the speedy delivery, a "friend" in Southern Ireland ordered some stuff recently direct from Germany at the reduced prices, it will be interesting to see how long they take to arrive!

On the speed of delivery point, had a phone call this morning items ordered from TT Germany last Tuesday arrived exactly one week later, order was complete with all items available from stock.

 

[cookie]

as has been said many times before, the answer's very simple. just don't buy from them.

 

[Rich C]

But isn't the main point here the fact that TT (D) refuse to mail-order to the UK only. They will happily mail-order to anywhere else in Europe?

I think most people accept that prices may vary accross Europe and, as you say, that is a comercial decision for the company involved - for better or for worse.

Andres

Andres
Yes that is the main point and understandably the source of peoples anger and confusion. It's my belief, based on my experience in what I do for a living that TT can do what they like and can't be forced to sell into a certain market, via a certain channel and at a certain price even if they do it elsewhere. I may be wrong though and hope I am!

 

[Thunder]

Reading Rich's post about different markets and distribution channels got me thinking about what other distributors are charging.

I checked on the price of the same item on various distributors via the TT website. To allow for the different VAT rates I calculated the costs net of vat, without shipping and the results are as follows:



Netherlands € 437.97 £ 298.09
Germany € 425.21 £ 289.41
Spain € 437.97 £ 298.10
Italy € 438.80 £ 298.66
France € 437.97 £ 298.09
Austria € 437.97 £ 298.09
UK € 531.84 £ 361.98

Seems like TT UK are getting very special treatment indeed!

 

[Rich C]

Reading Rich's post about different markets and distribution channels got me thinking about what other distributors are charging.

I checked on the price of the same item on various distributors via the TT website. To allow for the different VAT rates I calculated the costs net of vat, without shipping and the results are as follows:



Netherlands € 437.97 £ 298.09
Germany € 425.21 £ 289.41
Spain € 437.97 £ 298.10
Italy € 438.80 £ 298.66
France € 437.97 £ 298.09
Austria € 437.97 £ 298.09
UK € 531.84 £ 361.98

Seems like TT UK are getting very special treatment indeed!

Those numbers are interesting and of course confirm what this thread is all about.

Doing some back of fag packet calculations, for no particular reason other than I felt like it, you can come up with a scenario that sounds plausible but could of course be completely wrong!

TT UK would hope to achieve a 30% margin on everything they sell. You need at least that sort of level to profitably sustain a business of this type. If TT De gave them a 15% discount on the list export price and TT UK then applied a 30% margin (a 43% markup) it comes out at a number remarkably close to the TT UK price.

This could of course be complete bollox but is the sort of scenario I would expect. What TT De need to do, of course, is give TT Uk a proper level of discount to allow them to sell at what appears to be the going rate in the rest of Europe and then we'll all be happy and olny have their delivery performance to moan about!. If they're already doing that and TT Uk are simply profiteering then they deserve to be showered with sh*t and we should all shop elsewhere and allow market forces to take effect.

 

[Thunder]

Rich

Just a thought but TT UK are also supplying dealers in the UK at a figure less than the retail. Given the fact a dealer will also be taking a mark up and selling it for the retail price the same as TT UK it seems to me they have one hell of a margin when someone buys direct.

 

[Rich C]

Rich

Just a thought but TT UK are also supplying dealers in the UK at a figure less than the retail. Given the fact a dealer will also be taking a mark up and selling it for the retail price the same as TT UK it seems to me they have one hell of a margin when someone buys direct.

I didn't appreciate there were UK dealers involved. yes you're right then. TT UK will be making an obscene margin on direct sales. (most internet traders do when you're cutting steps out of the distribution chain)They've probaly fixed their selling direct prices so as not to undercut their UK dealers a scenario in which yet another margin has been added.

What we probably need to do here is set up an import business, buy at the lowest worldwide price, Germany according to the numbers above, and import into the Uk, set up another internet trading business and undercut TT Uk and their dealers. Offer an excellent service, take all their business, become important to TT De and then get proper prices from TT De and then start making money.

Anyone got a few hundred £k to invest in stock, a spare warehouse and not much to do for a couple of years! Simple eh? No not really.

 

[Paul S]

Lets keep things simple

1. Touratech UK are ripping us off - do not buy from them unless of course you are happy being ripped off

2. Touratech de are probually acting in breach of the rules of the EEC - if that worries you then complain to your MEP/The Commission as set out in earlier posts.

3. Use the money you have saved by not buying TT accessories for fuel/tyres and get out on your bike more

 

[cookie]

Lets keep things simple

1. Touratech UK are ripping us off - do not buy from them unless of course you are happy being ripped off

2. Touratech de are probually acting in breach of the rules of the EEC - if that worries you then complain to your MEP/The Commission as set out in earlier posts.

3. Use the money you have saved by not buying TT accessories for fuel/tyres and get out on your bike more

i'm doing my bit. i have, only recently, "not spent" £290 on one of their tank bags.

all the TT stuff i do own is second hand too. Fcuk 'em

 

[Hamster]

I'm doing my bit. I didn't buy nearly 900 quids worth