Touratech - Again

Just had this responce from Paolo CESARINI of the European Commission:

Dear Mr S,

Thank you for your e-mail of 26 August 2007, in which you complain about the practice of a German company Touratech.

In your e-mail you explain that when customers in the UK attempt to acquire products through a German Touratech website, they are immediately redirected to the UK website where the same products are on offer at a higher price.

In reply to your query it should be pointed out that, in principle, vertical agreements between undertakings which restrict the territory into which, or the customers to whom, the distributor may sell goods, are prohibited by Article 81 of the EC Treaty. However, as follows from the case-law, Article 81(1) refers only to relations between independent economic entities and does not cover agreements or concerted practices between undertakings belonging to the same group of undertakings forming an economic unit (see judgment in Joined Cases T-68/89, T-77/89 and T-78/89 SIV and Others v Commission [1992] ECR II-1403, paragraph 357; judgment in case C-73/95 P Viho v Commission [1996] ECR I-05457, paragraph 6).

From the information in the possession of the Commission, it seems that both in Germany and in the UK Touratech operates through its branches. The arrangements for the distribution of Touratech products seem therefore to be made within a group of undertakings and do not constitute agreements within the meaning of Article 81 of the EC Treaty. In such circumstances, Touratech Germany's refusal to sell directly to consumers in the UK would not fall under the prohibition set out in Article 81 of the Treaty.

I hope that this answers your query.

Yours sincerely,


So in other words Touratech DE are not acting unlawfully in the eyes of the commission. So much for a common market then :spitfire

Only recourse then is to stop buying products from TT UK until such time as they stop ripping us off
 
Seems a complete cop-out to me. So the alleged competition bod at the EU issaying that these kind of restrictive practices such as refusing to ship to another EU country are OK as long as they say that's what they're going to do.:spitfire

Any how, as I said, my office is in Munich and I go there once a month or so. If I need any stuff more quickly I get it sent to the office and they send it on to me.

I'll post up here when I'm either travelling or ordering and provided we can work out payment I'm happy to get stuff for others too.
 
However, as follows from the case-law, Article 81(1) refers only to relations between independent economic entities and does not cover agreements or concerted practices between undertakings belonging to the same group of undertakings

Mr Cesarini hasn't bothered to investigate whether or not the companies are independent or not. The reality is that Touratech AG (TTDE) and Touratech Limited (TTUK) are most definitely independent economic entities.

According to the information that is publicly available on the Companies House website, as of 22 Jan 2007 TTUK has 10 issued shares, 6 of which are held by Nick Plumb and 4 by Jon Watson-Miller (of Bracken Motorcycles).

Therefore TTUK can in no way be considered a subsidiary or associate company of TTDE.

Furthermore the accounts filed at Companies House state that TTUK "is controlled by Nick Plumb, a director a shareholder." As at 31 Jan 2007 the company had a shortfall of current assets of £24380, and a total deficit of £6230.

If anyone is interested in following this up with Mr Cesarini and wants a copy of the relevant documents, email me at tim-dot-cullis-at-infar-dot-co-dot-uk
 
Mr Cesarini hasn't bothered to investigate whether or not the companies are independent or not. The reality is that Touratech AG (TTDE) and Touratech Limited (TTUK) are most definitely independent economic entities.

According to the information that is publicly available on the Companies House website, as of 22 Jan 2007 TTUK has 10 issued shares, 6 of which are held by Nick Plumb and 4 by Jon Watson-Miller (of Bracken Motorcycles).

Therefore TTUK can in no way be considered a subsidiary or associate company of TTDE.

Furthermore the accounts filed at Companies House state that TTUK "is controlled by Nick Plumb, a director a shareholder." As at 31 Jan 2007 the company had a shortfall of current assets of £24380, and a total deficit of £6230.

If anyone is interested in following this up with Mr Cesarini and wants a copy of the relevant documents, email me at tim-dot-cullis-at-infar-dot-co-dot-uk

Tim, you have mail :thumb
 
Guys,
As i always tell you, I dont mind getting stuff my end from TT Germany, and posting on at cost. Might even be in the UK around the Xmas period, if so, posting would be even cheaper:D

Just let me know, but will know if i'm coming over closer to the time!

Regards
SF

As i always say, i know it isn't the solution to the problem, but every little helps!:thumb
 
T.T.Service

Recommend you try Rick in Santiago, (Chilie) exellent service, panniers on the shelf, and hwe does a fantastic barbeque! best bwhishes to all the staff if you read this.
dace gs.
 
Guys,
As i always tell you, I dont mind getting stuff my end from TT Germany, and posting on at cost. Might even be in the UK around the Xmas period, if so, posting would be even cheaper:D

Just let me know, but will know if i'm coming over closer to the time!

Regards
SF

As i always say, i know it isn't the solution to the problem, but every little helps!:thumb

I may be interested in taking you up on your kind offer, I'm interested in a seat for a 1200GSA. Perhaps you can let me know in what format you would require payment etc?

My email is [email protected]

Thank you :thumb
 
Just picked up the BMW low GSA site today, it's alright but not that comfortable - well not for my bottom! On the positive side the bike is now way more usable for me.

I don't seem to be able to message Silver Fox (see above), can some nice person assist by messaging him, I would like to give the Touratech seat a try.

Merry Christmas :)
 
I don't seem to be able to message Silver Fox (see above), can some nice person assist by messaging him, I would like to give the Touratech seat a try.

Merry Christmas :)

you need to be a sponsor to us PMs.
 
Placed order via internet on the evening of the 19th Dec.

Items arrived 23rd Dec.

(Yes in the same year! ;))
 
Good service

I've ordered several things from TT over the months and have always recieved them within a few days.:thumb2
Even the missus ordered me crimbo pressie on the 21st and it arrived the next day!!!!!!!!!!
So in my experience TT get a thumbs up.
 
just out of interest would a member in germany try ordering from the uk and see what happens :nenau if the ttuk are willing to sell to a german address that would make our case stronger:mmmm
 
I've ordered several things from TT over the months and have always recieved them within a few days.:thumb2
Even the missus ordered me crimbo pressie on the 21st and it arrived the next day!!!!!!!!!!
So in my experience TT get a thumbs up.




In every class, there's always one teachers pet...............:augie :aidan
 
Not sure I really want to get involved in this little storm....

<RANT>
a) If you're not happy with the service, try a different product. b) Why is it so hard to understand that a company does not want to supply to the UK other than through their distributors? :nenau It doesn't mean a UK person can't buy from them but it's their (the buyers) problem to get hold of the goods.

Besides, if they make it too easy for UK people to buy products from them, why would anyone need to go to the UK dealer? Are you (those that are so unhappy) suggesting we don't need a dealer in the UK and would be happier dealing only with Germany? I can't imagine that. Do you fancy learning German?? Have you tried saying thingamajig in Deutche?!?!

I guess the bit that gets me the most - is the idea of trying to force a company to do something, because of a law. Companies work on supply and demand - stop buying stuff, price comes down (or possibly value/quality goes up). The concept of trying to force a company to change its ways (excluding discrimination) seems bonkers to me. Even more concerning is this is some EU law, like so many that we Brits have had issues with over the years (The Euro for example...) and now, when it suits us (because we can save a couple quid) we want to enforce the law.




One last thing - perhaps, if one BMW dealer in Scotland decides to start selling gear slightly cheaper than England dealers, we could go round those English dealers, citing the law and forcing them to drop their prices... Sound reasonable?

</RANT>
 


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