Unbiased Opinions?

[Deleted account 251212001]

I suppose we take it as we find, ie personal experience but there have been problems with gear changes on some bikes . Mine (2014) had a new clutch pack as the shift was to quote dealer 'bad". Graunching into gears was horrible under hard acceleration. first gear bangs from neutral have always been part and parcel on any bike.

Pre loading the gear lever did not work either Engineer

I will also hand it to Giles ( I suppose coppers have to get it right occasionally ) the 2013 GS I originally demo'd had the worst gear change in over 30 motorcycles I've ridden over the years. Like an old fiat with a screwed up synchromesh. They weren't all like this though.

Overall a great bike in my opinion , for my riding needs, i've also tried/owned an S1000XR , good bike, silly fast, something lacking though. will be back on a GS soon.

 

[Engineer]

My Sept 2013 clunks into first. To me that's a given on all wet clutch bikes, or at least the ones I have owned in the past. I honestly don't know what people are talking about when they say the gearbox is shit. I bow to Giles obvious knowledge and experience but I agree with Engineer. Upshifts and especially downshifts can be almost imperceptable with a bit of rev matching. There is a video on Youtube with a guy riding a Suzuki GSXR down the Route Napoleon somewhere.

Now, Suzuki are renowned for making sweet gearboxes but to watch this guy just banging down the gears without an ounce of technique or mechanical sympathy would just make you wince and if you didn't know any better, you would say "What a shit gearbox" If the gearbox on the new one is far, far better than mine is now then it must be bloody brilliant.

Spot on, learn the bike's characteristics - isn't this a given for advanced riding? dunno, but knowing your bike and adapting one's technique is the way to go, surely????

 

[Giles]

All bikes are a compromise, they all have their pros and cons, and they all have strengths and weaknesses.

You seem to think (judging by every post you ever write) that your GS is faultless and shines out your arse !

It's a great bike, and like I say, the boxer engine has great character and the telelever front in particular is superb.

There are plenty of great iconic bikes out there from the C90, to the VFR, the BlackBird, Hayabusa .... They've all sold millions.

But even the iconic bikes still have their achilles heels whether thats a complete lack of soul, paint peeling of engine cases, spongy or wooden brakes, average suspension .... you name it.

My KTM is a blinding bike, but that too has its compromises - a poor airbox design for starters, seat is rock hard, switch gear is fiddly, the 'menu' is pretty hard work .... . And I'm happy to freely admit it. But it's the best compromise out there for me at the moment.

The LC GS has a shit gearbox / clutch! Why have they had to re-design it for 2017?? It's not just the clonk into first, all wet clutches do that, it's dragging a gear into place thats already spinning because it's not disengaging properly in the first place. They didn't get their first boxer wet clutch right first time. And that for me a more of a deal breaker than crap panniers or fiddly switch gear. Transmission and how a bike makes and reduces its power, how it takes you from three figures to 30 mph into and out of a series of bends is the heart and soul of a bike. Fuck me, you really need to get that bit right!

You crack me up Engineer - sometimes you can't see the woods for the trees - GS's going back to the dealer by the lorry load for replacement engines because of shite paint, I see so many threads on here about problems and complaints that people have in their bikes but no, you will never put your hand up and admit that the GS isn't faultless.

All bikes have their problems, as does the LC GS, and it's biggest problem at the moment is its transmission.

 

[Engineer]

As always the old interweb concentrates problems into one place - one dissatisfied customer tells 10 people etc, satisfied customers just carry on enjoying their bikes. The sheer numbers of GS's around tell the main story - if the next generation LC GS has the same gearbox it won't stop it selling by the shed load because 99% of riders have no issue using it - if BMW have managed to make it slicker then great but the current box is more than good enough and the rest of the bike excels in so many ways.

 

[Giles]

Well it can't be that good otherwise BM wouldn't be redesigning it would they ... !!!

'I tell you what chaps, lets spend spend millions of pounds redesigning a gear box that doesn't need it .. '

 

[Toddmeister]

Had my 2013 LC for just over 3 years now, done 24k miles and ir's been a fabulous bike to own and ride.

One minor problem with misaligned clutch plates which was fixed under warranty, other than that it's been a peach. Apart from a clunk into first, I have no problems at all with the gear change up and down the box Only time I ever did struggle is when I fitted pivot pegz which right fecked up my shifts but I'm not too sure why. Went back to Touratech pegs and all was good again, so maybe I've just got better gear change technique than Giles

Bikes been ridden through 3 winters and there's no problems with corrosion anywhere I can see. The flappy valve thing doesn't stick (coz it's tucked up in the loft) and ir's been to Earl Shilton for some black magic.

I've owned pretty much all models of GS bikes on and off from 1990, and this latest one is my favourite. As always though, owning bikes is a very subjective experience - so go test ride what your interested in and make up your own mind.

 

[mrtee43]

Maybe it's called continuous improvement. Who knows, maybe this a development for a more powerful engine in the future and the bike needs a gearbox re design to handle the increased power.

 

[Engineer]

Maybe it's called continuous improvement. Who knows, maybe this a development for a more powerful engine in the future and the bike needs a gearbox re design to handle the increased power.

All manufacturer's have a policy of continuous improvement for obvious reasons, a gearbox/clutch change doesn't have to cost a fortune, it's all about understanding the detail and subtleties or as you say changes elsewhere (power etc) necessitate a change in the transmission. We can foresee a potential heat issue in our products, and I will be looking into new techniques to extract the heat so that we can use the same enclosure design to dissipate more power than we presently require, that way we can get the higher performance that the market wants.

P.S. some bikes just don't suit some people.

 

[Muddy.dave]

Well it can't be that good otherwise BM wouldn't be redesigning it would they ... !!!

'I tell you what chaps, lets spend spend millions of pounds redesigning a gear box that doesn't need it .. '

Sorry but that's a pretty witless comment. All aspects of any bike get continuously reviewed and updated for a host of reasons. The forums reflect the few who have problems not the many who don't. My 2013 LC has been ridden hard over two continents, the gearbox is fine, no corrosion anywhere despite never using ACF50 or anything like it. No issues of any sort. It's a great bike so sorry to piss on your campfire but not all LC's are shite.

 

[Engineer]

Sorry but that's a pretty witless comment. All aspects of any bike get continuously reviewed and updated for a host of reasons. The forums reflect the few who have problems not the many who don't. My 2013 LC has been ridden hard over two continents, the gearbox is fine, no corrosion anywhere despite never using ACF50 or anything like it. No issues of any sort. It's a great bike so sorry to piss on your campfire but not all LC's are shite.

At the end of the day Giles doesn't like the LC GS gear box and couldn't/can't get on with it, fair enough it is his opinion, BUT the vast majority can.

 

[fatnfast]

I tried just 2 LCs before buying mine. The first was a 14 reg. The gearbox was absolutely rubbish. Hard to find neutral, grinding gear changes up to third etc. It put me off. My 1960's triumph had a sweeter gearbox. I felt this this bike certainly had mechanical issues. Loved the engine though...

Then I tried another 14 reg, thinking that the first must surely be a rouge one. Totally different. Clunked into first, but that was it. I can't remember what the rest of the gear changes were like as I was enjoying the ride.

My experience reflects both what Giles and Engineer seem to have found.

Why are they so different??! (not Giles and Engineer)

 

[gateway77]

I must have been lucky as never really found the clutch a problem. My newer Lc certainly doesn't seem clunky. Overall I'd rate as pretty smooth.
Had a couple of KTM's and loved them but definitely harder to ride smoothly at lower speeds - slick gearbox or not.

 

[ymfb]

My gearbox is very smooth to operate, except going into first once it's warmed up. I've tried various things including only putting it into gear after holding the clutch lever in for more than two seconds.

But it's exactly the same as my 2013 R1200RT

 

[Tyzer]

The gearbox on my Sept 15 GS is not the best box I've ever used but it's ok ,the bike has many other attributes to make up for it.My ZZR clunks into 1st In fact every bike ive ever owned clunked into 1st to some degree or other but the gearbox is super slick for all other changes.

All this talk of improvements to the 2017 gearbox is a mystery to me ,I had a new 2017 GSA on demo a couple of weeks ago for 24 hrs and the gearbox was just the same in my humble opinion?

I never thought I could own something as ugly as a GS but after dissmissing the XR and taking the GS for a 150 mile test ride I loved it and placed the order .Couldn't part with the ZZR though because as brilliant as the GS is it doesn't make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up like the ZZR.

 

[Tyzer]

What a load of bollocks,it's 2016 you shouldnt need to change gear in a certain way to ensure a smooth change !!

 

[tanneman]

Nice to hear that line again. 'Continuous improvement'. The same crap my employer tells the client because they know they screwed up somewhere in the design and then changed it years later. Bollocks. I'm on my 3rd final drive but that is another story. The GS/GSA is a very good bike but....... you can complete the sentence. I can tell you this, sofa = BMW all day comfy easy to ride from get go. If you want to exercise the retina muscles then get a KTM 1190, or the 1290 will do but needs a bit more commitment. Other makes and models available to do that but if money no object I will look at the orange bikes. BMW is best for ergonomics, no question.

 

[Aidan1150]

At the end of the day Giles doesn't like the LC GS gear box and couldn't/can't get on with it, fair enough it is his opinion, BUT the vast majority can.

I guess you didn't read the thread title.

 

[Engineer]

I tried just 2 LCs before buying mine. The first was a 14 reg. The gearbox was absolutely rubbish. Hard to find neutral, grinding gear changes up to third etc. It put me off. My 1960's triumph had a sweeter gearbox. I felt this this bike certainly had mechanical issues. Loved the engine though...

Then I tried another 14 reg, thinking that the first must surely be a rouge one. Totally different. Clunked into first, but that was it. I can't remember what the rest of the gear changes were like as I was enjoying the ride.

My experience reflects both what Giles and Engineer seem to have found.

Why are they so different??! (not Giles and Engineer)

I had an original 2013 LC and its gearbox clonked into 1st because of clutch drag but all other changes were ok - my 2015 is better but the 2013 bike's box was never a show stopper.

 

[Engineer]

I guess you didn't read the thread title.

Is any opinion unbiassed?

 

[CPJS]

Is any opinion unbiassed?

Indeed not.
An opinion is formed through experience. experience of what?..compared to what?
It is is all comparative and subjective therefore all opinions have validity, helpful to an individual or not.