Warranty - To Buy or Not To Buy?

[h0wz3r]

Hi guys,

On Friday I put a (non-returnable, OMG!) deposit on a R1200GS and have a couple of questions before I plonk the rest of the dough on the table for the balance!

A little background on me - I've been riding for just over a year on a Yamaha Fazer FZS600 and always fancied a GS but never thought I could afford one. Fortunately for me, the time has come where I'm very privileged to be able to and here's the one I found: http://dealerservices.autotrader.co.uk/12065/stocklist.htm

It's got about 17k on the clock and in immaculate condition except for a minor scuff on one of the handguards and also the seat on the bottom. Unfortunately I couldn't knock a penny off the price no matter what I tried but eventually persuaded him to give me the next service for £50 (oil and filter change.) I also get 12 months MOT and 1 month's parts and labour warranty but no tax I'm afraid.

After checking all the paperwork and doing my own HPI check, the bike came back clean as a whistle so I put £295 deposit down with £5k left to balance when I pick it up.

It may shock some of you but I put the deposit down without having test ridden a GS. The reason for this is that particular bike wouldn't hang around long at all at that price, even at this time of year and I didn't want to risk losing out if I didn't go for it. Having spoken to a couple of GS owners beforehand, they led me to believe that I wouldn't have a problem and if the worst came to the very worst I could always move it on, probably for a small profit if I really didn't get on with it that much.

My main question is should I seek out a warranty on it considering some of the well-known issues these bikes have? The fuel pump has been replaced but nothing else from what I gather. I hear a lot about the final drive going as the other major fault with these things but not much else.

You guys being in the know, what would you do in my situation?

Other than this I'm both looking forward to picking the bike up but very very nervous at the same time as it's a completely different beast to the Fazer. In fact the Fazer feels like a push bike compared to the GS!

Forgot to mention, it's a 54 plate registered in December 2004 (2005 model year I'm assuming?)

 

[h0wz3r]

An update on the warranty question.

I contacted BMW and they quoted me £428 for the year with no excess or £360 with a £100 excess. It takes effect 1 month after the premium has been paid which would tie in with the 1 month I get from the salesman.

I don't think that's bad at all as I was expecting it to be around £500+ but even so it's a lot of money for something that may not go wrong. The bike also needs to have been fully serviced, not necessarily by a BMW dealer but they have to use genuine BMW parts.

Only thing with the excess is that's payable for each warranty claim but you pays your money and takes your chances don't you?

 

[EggChaser]

I bought mine new - but will be taking out the warranty when it is offered to me.

Reasons are minor concerns about the Final Drive - and the odd valve / cylinder head problem on the right hand cylinder that has been reported. Both of these do appear to have low failure rate - however when I owned an R1100S I did have the seals around the final drive fail when I did not have a warranty and prefer the peace of mind of extending the warranty.

The fuel pump controller and the ring antenna have I believe been overall the most common problems and in theory are both fixed - however they are also relatively cheap to fix if you don't have a warranty.

 

[h0wz3r]

I bought mine new - but will be taking out the warranty when it is offered to me.

Reasons are minor concerns about the Final Drive - and the odd valve / cylinder head problem on the right hand cylinder that has been reported. Both of these do appear to have low failure rate - however when I owned an R1100S I did have the seals around the final drive fail when I did not have a warranty and prefer the peace of mind of extending the warranty.

The fuel pump controller and the ring antenna have I believe been overall the most common problems and in theory are both fixed - however they are also relatively cheap to fix if you don't have a warranty.

It's the cost of any repairs without a warranty that I'm weighing it up against.

Although it's the first generation R1200GS it has got relatively low mileage and therefore I would be inclined to think that there's less chance of something going wrong soon but that's not always the case is it!

I could worry myself to death with some of the problems I've heard people have had with their GSs but in the grand scheme of things I do wonder how likely it is for something to go wrong.

BMWs in general seem to have a reputation for high maintenance costs. Having spent a small fortune to get the bike in the first place I don't want to end up with astronomical garage bills!

The fuel pump has already been replaced according to the description anyway so hopefully there's little chance of that going. The ring antenna I heard that was a problem more on later bikes than the earlier ones but it's good to know it's cheap to fix if it does go.

Any other thoughts or am I just flapping too much here?

 

[EggChaser]

One other comment I should have made is that my 2008 model has done over 21K and not missed a beat.

With regards the question about other thoughts you will probably get some other comments from other members - especially as some members are mechanically skilled and have the tools so only have to worry about the cost of parts and not the labour.

 

[GSmonkey]

Don't worry about FPC or ring antenna, they're relatively cheap to fix.

What you're insuring against are:
1) seal leaking contaminating the clutch (you need to split the bike in two to fix)
2) shaft drive failing needing a new one
3) gearbox failing
4) RH Piston having a fight with the valves
5) discs warping

All the above are reported on the forum all too regularly - although you've got to remember how popular the 1200GS series of bikes now is.

It's all about risk. For the bike you're buying, at least it's got miles under it's belt, so you've got through the first bit of the bathtub failure curve. Against it is that it's an early model.

The final decision is up to you. But considering the age of the bike, I'd be thinking about 100% independant servicing and stuffing the £500 in the bank.

 

[Wapping]

or am I just flapping too much here?

Simply go do the math, as our American cousins are prone to say.

The warranty is how much? Three hundred and fifty odd quid, I guess? That is a pound a day, including European Breakdown and Recovery. If you already have European / UK breakdown cover via the AA or some similar organisation, you may not need it or, you simply get it twice, one for 'free'.

The rear seal on early and not so early 1200GS's often goes at about 25,000 (I have lost two on two separate bikes at about the same mileage) but not all of them go by any means.... The first sign is an oil smear around the large central hole in the back wheel. It is a few pounds and takes about, say, 45 minutes. Call it £50 to replace via a mainline BuMW dealership, less if private.

Will anything else more costly or inconvenient fail? Who knows...? If anyone did then they would tell you. But they can't....

So you are left having to decide for yourself... Toss a coin, if it helps... If you you use a pound coin, that represents one day's premium....

 

[elevensies]

think you did ok with the bike, looks nice, i would however get the warranty,

worth the weight in gold, especially if you intend to ride it any distances

 

[NorthernBoy]

I've always taken the view that, in the long run, insurance and warranties are not worth it. Over forty years of biking, the vast majority of us will end up close to the statistical average of warranty claims, and so for nearly everyone, it would have been been cheaper to go without, and just fork out if and when something goes wrong. On cars aftermarket warranties are notoriously bad value, and it's likely to be similar on bikes. Remember, people telling you about how they saved £2,000 with a £400 warranty must be outweighed by those spending £400 and getting nothing, if the company is making a profit on them. Also remember that there's still a decent chance that you'll get a goodwill contribution if something major goes wrong when the bike is not too far out of warranty.

However...

The reliability of the first generation 1200 does seem to be a real issue, and it is conceivable that BMW are subsidising the warranties to stop the bottom dropping out of the used market (they won't be selling many new bikes if two year old ones were going to cost £1,000 a year to warranty). Given the large number of independent issues I had on my first generation 1200, I'd probably change the habit of a lifetime, and pay up if it were me (I went one further and swapped it for a new one as soon as I was on my own with it).

Overall, you are probably paying more than "fair", but you are doing the same with your theft cover, and your contents insurance. If you are happy to pay a company a profit for peace of mind on them, then it makes sense to do the same with the bike. It'll likely make your riding that bit more enjoyable, as when new and interesting noises and "quirks" develop as the bike ages, you won't be spending the rest of the trip imagining dire costs and consequences to follow.

 

[h0wz3r]

worth the weight in gold, especially if you intend to ride it any distances

In terms of how much mileage I intend to cover. In my first year of riding I covered around 3500 miles, mainly on ride outs.

I can't see that figure rising by much in the 2nd year but I estimate to be doing around 4k or thereabouts, tops. The only big mileage it may do is if a mini Euro trip I'm planning comes off (unlikely at the moment) but even so that'll only make the yearly figure about 5k tops.

For what the warranty would cost, I'm thinking I'd rather keep it in my bank account and send it to an independent garage (most probably the one I bought it from) and get it sorted out there if any issues arise.

Even if a big issue does rear its ugly head, it would have to be major to be landed with a £400+ bill I would've thought from an independent? Considering the warranty would cost me £428 for the year I'd be prepared to take that risk I think.

Appreciate the responses by the way, obviously you know better than I do at this moment in time about GS ownership!

 

[neil 23]

My warranty was about to run out and was undecided about whether to extend or not, anyway decided to pay for extension, 4 days later, final drive bearing went, according to BMW it was a £1200 job !

A no brainer to me !

 

[Wapping]

In terms of how much mileage I intend to cover. In my first year of riding I covered around 3500 miles, mainly on ride outs.

I can't see that figure rising by much in the 2nd year but I estimate to be doing around 4k or thereabouts, tops. The only big mileage it may do is if a mini Euro trip I'm planning comes off (unlikely at the moment) but even so that'll only make the yearly figure about 5k tops.

For what the warranty would cost, I'm thinking I'd rather keep it in my bank account and send it to an independent garage (most probably the one I bought it from) and get it sorted out there if any issues arise.

Even if a big issue does rear its ugly head, it would have to be major to be landed with a £400+ bill I would've thought from an independent? Considering the warranty would cost me £428 for the year I'd be prepared to take that risk I think.

Appreciate the responses by the way, obviously you know better than I do at this moment in time about GS ownership!

So, in short. You have decided not to buy it.

Hoorah! Flapping over.

 

[SPL]

I decided NOT to extend my BMW warrantee.

They market it as though you're buying another year of manufacturer's cover, but you are not getting that at all.

It's an insurance based policy and you have to read the small print to find out what is covered and what isn't (much of what you might expect to be covered is not included).

Sure, if I have a major shaft drive failure or engine failure (not attributable to normal wear and tear) I might regret not paying up.

But, if the problem is the far more likely leaky seal, electrical fault, or corrosion issue, having the extended warranty isn't going to help as they don't cover it anyway. Not sure about warped disks, but I would bet on them arguing wear and tear, so wouldn't hold my breath on it being paid out.

When you weigh up what's covered, and take into account the premium and excess, it doesn't look like good value for money to me.

The decision would be harder if it was a pukka extension of manufacturer's cover, but as it isn't it wasn't

 

[Beemerman59]

My 2 year warranty will be up next March on my 1200GSA and I have been thinking this out as well. I have put 10K miles on the bike since I bought it secondhand earlier this year and the bike has behaved impeccably. To buy another years warranty would also mean two sevices in the same period so thats a grand gone. As I can't think of another bike I would want to own, I'm thinking of keeping this one for a few years yet. Given this, I'm looking at investing in a good manual, one or two additional tools and doing the servicing myself which I have always done on my other bikes. Luckily I also have a second bike in the garage so I can service one and ride the other. Then I save the cash just in case the final drive goes and if it doesn't then I'm quids in. Also, the joy of ownership for me includes getting some dirty oil under the fingernails.

 

[Rong]

But, if the problem is the far more likely leaky seal, electrical fault, or corrosion issue, having the extended warranty isn't going to help as they don't cover it anyway.

Main oil seals for engine and gearbox are covered (incl. head gasket!) as are electrical components incl. loom and lambda probes.

In my case I cover about 1500 miles a month so £30 per month is good value, for me.

My GS is an '04 plate on 30K miles and has already had about £500 worth of warranty work done this year, trunion bushes, gearbox oil seals, rear hub oil seal and goes back in tomorrow for possible TPS failure work.

Horses for courses!

 

[iftikartaxis]

Have a look at the AA warrenty a lot cheaper take out basic breakdown cover
Have a word with a AA patrol when you see one
he will tell you all about it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also theres a guy in Moll springs between Honley and Netherton works on bmw's i have been told he's cheap and cheerful if that helps

"welcome to wonderland"


Noticed the picture doesn't have panniers if you need some my friend has a set x 3
also motorworks meltham are breaking 1200's so hopefully 2nd hand parts yeah yeah yeah!!!!!!

 

[h0wz3r]

Have a look at the AA warrenty a lot cheaper take out basic breakdown cover
Have a word with a AA patrol when you see one
he will tell you all about it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also theres a guy in Moll springs between Honley and Netherton works on bmw's i have been told he's cheap and cheerful if that helps

"welcome to wonderland"


Noticed the picture doesn't have panniers if you need some my friend has a set x 3
also motorworks meltham are breaking 1200's so hopefully 2nd hand parts yeah yeah yeah!!!!!!

Actually I am after some panniers, or a top box at least. Looking at prices even on Ebay they ain't cheap!

Can you post some pics and a price? Also do they just attach to the bike or will I need extra mounts? Do you have a link for motorworks as Meltham isn't far from me?

Digressing to the warranty, I remember speaking to the AA about their version of a warranty when I took my cover out earlier this year. At the time I didn't bother but it may be worth looking into. I'd be prepared to pay around £200 for a year's warranty but £428 just seems steep unless you believe something very bad may happen in the first 12 months of ownership!

 

[Deleted account 190920001]

you could try getting a quote from http://www.warrantydirect.co.uk/quote_page1_bike.html as well. Never used them but I have seen them mentioned on a few threads here. Advantage would be you don't have to use a BM dealer for servicing. just your local bike shop will do.

 

[iftikartaxis]

well the panniers are givi
top box and panniers all keyed for one key think he wants £275 for the lot that includes honda vfr frames you could sell them
will require frames motorworks may have second hand
google motorworks really helpful i get all my spares there

ring david for the panniers Tel David 01422-379441 ainley top

 

[Rong]

My GS is an '04 plate on 30K miles and has already had about £500 worth of warranty work done this year, trunion bushes, gearbox oil seals, rear hub oil seal and goes back in tomorrow for possible TPS failure work.

Turned out to be throttle body butterfly bearings / bushes. So under warranty new bodies, even second hand these are £90 each (MotorWorks) so I reckon the warranty has been worthwhile!