what a fecking joke we are not in the UK

[Wizard]

Right, so to cut through the crap:

The first dealer refused to register a bike in their name (as is their right), and BMW appear to have a policy that UK bikes must not be sold unregistered.

The second dealer will happily register a bike in their name, but BMW would prefer that you use your local dealer.

To encourage you to use your local dealer, one of their staff is giving up their allocation so you can get a bike locally that by your own admission you haven't got the time to collect yourself from England.

Hope your leg isn't too sore to ride it after all this

 

[Thunder]

Thunder they have offered to send a bike to Hursts (this would be an extra allocation) not one that Hursts have on order

Paul, while I'm glad that you have a solution to your search, it does stike me that this is not a solution in the real sense.

This has not changed the position of BMW effectively restricting trade and a customers ability to obtain a bike from the dealer of his or her choice, as you mentioned it was not a case of you not wanting to deal with Hursts, just that they have none available until 2007, and I would say this is parrtly due to the situation of not being able to source one on the mainland.

BMW may say that this was not one that Hursts had on order or in their allocation but what of the people still waiting in the queue for their bikes from Hursts?

It seems to me that this is an attempt by BMW UK to make the issue go away, until they deal with the real issue here and let a buyer go where he or she wants I don't think it should!

Comments from the collective?

 

[Aidan1150]

they have offered to send a bike to Hursts (this would be an extra allocation) not one that Hursts have on order

Well Paul, I suppose if you are getting the bike you want at the same price as in the UK and it will be delivered to Mallusk at no cost to you, then you are doing pretty well I reckon.

At least you get the bike without flying over to the UK or having the bike trucked home at your own expense.

Hope it all works out for you.........finally.

 

[Allroad]

Well Paul, I suppose if you are getting the bike you want at the same price as in the UK and it will be delivered to Mallusk at no cost to you, then you are doing pretty well I reckon.

At least you get the bike without flying over to the UK or having the bike trucked home at your own expense.

Hope it all works out for you.........finally.

not as simple as that aidan as ihave paid a deposit in england with another dealer so watch this space

 

[Allroad]

Right, so to cut through the crap:

The first dealer refused to register a bike in their name (as is their right), and BMW appear to have a policy that UK bikes must not be sold unregistered.

The second dealer will happily register a bike in their name, but BMW would prefer that you use your local dealer.

To encourage you to use your local dealer, one of their staff is giving up their allocation so you can get a bike locally that by your own admission you haven't got the time to collect yourself from England.

Hope your leg isn't too sore to ride it after all this

correct wizard

 

[Allroad]

Paul, while I'm glad that you have a solution to your search, it does stike me that this is not a solution in the real sense.

This has not changed the position of BMW effectively restricting trade and a customers ability to obtain a bike from the dealer of his or her choice, as you mentioned it was not a case of you not wanting to deal with Hursts, just that they have none available until 2007, and I would say this is parrtly due to the situation of not being able to source one on the mainland.

BMW may say that this was not one that Hursts had on order or in their allocation but what of the people still waiting in the queue for their bikes from Hursts?

It seems to me that this is an attempt by BMW UK to make the issue go away, until they deal with the real issue here and let a buyer go where he or she wants I don't think it should!

Comments from the collective?

correct to thunder is their easy way out

 

[MikeP]

This has not changed the position of BMW effectively restricting trade and a customers ability to obtain a bike from the dealer of his or her choice,

Comments from the collective?

Does BMW (or any other motor manufacturer) have to sell their products?

Forget customer services, loyalty etc. for a moment.

If they refused to sell on the basis of something discriminatory or hiked prices artificially to prevent a purchase by customers in a given geographic location, that would be worth pursuing but if I walked into a dealer and they said 'I'm not selling my product to you because I don't want to', can they be forced to sell?

In the quoted circumstances, the refusal was based on British Dealers inability to deal with DVLANI (BMW's poor grasp of political geography is a Red-herring).

 

[big fella]

Mike p

In response to Mike P's enquiry about a dealer not wanting to sell you a bike,i dont think a dealer can do that.If its for sale and advertised as such i dont see how the dealer cannot sell it to you.Technically speaking if its for sale and he dont want your money,can you not then take the bike without paying for it,after all you offered him the money(asking price) and he declined it.

 

[Wizard]

In response to Mike P's enquiry about a dealer not wanting to sell you a bike,i dont think a dealer can do that.If its for sale and advertised as such i dont see how the dealer cannot sell it to you.Technically speaking if its for sale and he dont want your money,can you not then take the bike without paying for it,after all you offered him the money(asking price) and he declined it.

'Fraid not. While the seller cannot increase the price of an item, he's under no obligation to sell whether it's advertised or not.

 

[MikeP]

Technically speaking if its for sale and he dont want your money,can you not then take the bike without paying for it,after all you offered him the money(asking price) and he declined it.

No. That would be theft. The fact that the item was offered for sale, the asking price proffered but refused wouldn't be a defence.

I can't see how the fact that a company is in the business of selling, compels them to sell.

 

[Mouse]

In fact I seem to remember a court judgement that said that a price tag on goods is merely an "invitation to make an offer" so I don't believe shops are even obliged to honour the displayed price. My memory may be failing a bit there though.

They have no obligation to sell to you, you have no obligation to buy from them.

 

[Thunder]

In fact I seem to remember a court judgement that said that a price tag on goods is merely an "invitation to make an offer" so I don't believe shops are even obliged to honour the displayed price. My memory may be failing a bit there though.

They have no obligation to sell to you, you have no obligation to buy from them.

You are correct mouse, a price tag is nothing more than an invitation in law and does not constitute a contract.

The situation is different however under current European Laws where a manufacturer deliberately restricts the sales of their products or unduly has different charging structures within member states.

This issue needs addressing, I just got my bike but in a couple of years I don't want to be limited in where I can look for another one!

 

[Mzokk]

The European Court of Justice has rejected an appeal by Volkswagen against a EUR102 million fine for restrictive sales practices. They were stopping Italian VW dealers selling to other eu countries. Got convicted and lost the appeal. The way BMW are arsing about with this one smacks of illegal trade restrictions.

Makes BMW as a company go even lower in my estimation.
Cartel springs to mind and this is contrary to domestic trading law. DTI would be intersted in this one!!

Found a bit on the VW case here and in BMW's case there is not even a border involved!!
http://europa.eu.int/rapid/pressRel...format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

 

[Fanum]

In fact I seem to remember a court judgement that said that a price tag on goods is merely an "invitation to make an offer" so I don't believe shops are even obliged to honour the displayed price. My memory may be failing a bit there though.

They have no obligation to sell to you, you have no obligation to buy from them.

Correct.....There's a thing about items marked up at the incorrect price.....a shop cannot refuse to sell it to you at that price, but they can withdraw the item from sale.......(it involves withdrawing all of the same item from the shelves and a time delay of some sort...can't remember the facts but in a different life I was a Halfords Branch Manager and we used to get chancers swapping price tags regularly....)



However, they cannot refuse a sale to an individual or company for reasons that break the law...E.G refusing to sell to someone from an ethnic/religious minority, sexual persuasion etc etc......even from a particular area (where it's been established that the person is likely to be from an ethnic minority etc..same goes with job applications, it's illegal to talk about areas)

In this case,(and I'm no expert so I admit I'm just guessing) we know the European free trade laws are in place, so I'd imagine it's illegal to refuse to sell you that bike because you live in N.I, as long as they will sell the same bike to someone with a UK adress if ya see what I mean

I suspect it does boil down to area protectionism (involving perhaps tax/profit margin factors) and ignorance.......and I'd say it was worth persuing, but only AFTER our man's got his bike...

At the end of the day, unless Allroad wants to make a stand on principle, the most important thing is that he can get on a new bike and get on with being a tosser....the kicking up stink can wait 'til afterwards

 

[MikeP]

The European Court of Justice has rejected an appeal by Volkswagen against a EUR102 million fine for restrictive sales practices. They were stopping Italian VW dealers selling to other eu countries. Got convicted and lost the appeal. The way BMW are arsing about with this one smacks of illegal trade restrictions.

Makes BMW as a company go even lower in my estimation.
Cartel springs to mind and this is contrary to domestic trading law. DTI would be intersted in this one!!

Found a bit on the VW case here and in BMW's case there is not even a border involved!!
http://europa.eu.int/rapid/pressRel...format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

Have I missed something?

I've read and re-read this thread.

Buyer in N.I. wants to buy a bike. Said bike is not available locally but there is one in England and dealer will sell but BMW will not allow sale of an un-registered vehicle (I assume because of some potential to lose track of the product for warranty purposes ).

Dealer either cannot or will not deal with DVLANI.

DVLA Swansea will not register a vehicle in N.I.

Dealer will not register it to themselves then sell as second-hand.

So as far as I can see the problem stems from not having a UK DVLA and maybe some criticism of the dealer that won't register the bike with DVLANI.

How this translates as BMW using restrictive practices escapes me.

Please tell me if I have missed something here!

 

[Mzokk]

Quite right Fanum. BMW's protectionist stance is why you can't get a deal on a BM in the same way that you can on any other motorcycle (or car including bm's), i.e. ring round the dealers for the best price (cos they will all be the same ita a Cartel). If they continue to get away with it, it will continue to be the case.

 

[Mzokk]

Have I missed something?

I've read and re-read this thread.

Buyer in N.I. wants to buy a bike. Said bike is not available locally but there is one in England and dealer will sell but BMW will not allow sale of an un-registered vehicle (I assume because of some potential to lose track of the product for warranty purposes ).

Dealer either cannot or will not deal with DVLANI.

DVLA Swansea will not register a vehicle in N.I.

Dealer will not register it to themselves then sell as second-hand.

So as far as I can see the problem stems from not having a UK DVLA and maybe some criticism of the dealer that won't register the bike with DVLANI.

How this translates as BMW using restrictive practices escapes me.

Please tell me if I have missed something here!

The situation re the DVLNI is a smoke screen. This is BMW tring to protect its sole NI dealer. If buying any other make of bike you can call dealers all round the country if you like and they will supply it at the price they can afford depending on demand/their own overheads margins sales targets etc. BMW's motorcycle distribution is strictly designed to stop this from happening. Which is anti competitive. Obviously the same argument would apply to someone trying to buy a bike from another eu state (couldn't register that at Swansea) and therefore put BMW in the same position as VW re the italian dealers who were prevented from selling to other eu states.

 

[Mzokk]

Sorry for going on!! But in addition BMW's response could be read in two ways. Either it was good customer relations to supply an additional bike locally or they know they are on dodgy ground with this one and want to get it tidied away asap. Anyhow good luck with the new bike allroad

 

[MikeP]

The situation re the DVLNI is a smoke screen. This is BMW tring to protect its sole NI dealer. If buying any other make of bike you can call dealers all round the country if you like and they will supply it at the price they can afford depending on demand/their own overheads margins sales targets etc. BMW's motorcycle distribution is strictly designed to stop this from happening. Which is anti competitive. Obviously the same argument would apply to someone trying to buy a bike from another eu state (couldn't register that at Swansea) and therefore put BMW in the same position as VW re the italian dealers who were prevented from selling to other eu states.

So what you are saying is that if you want a Honda Fireguard and ring around finding that a London Honda dealer has the best price, they will sell a new machine to a N.I buyer and register it directly through DVLANI?

BMW do seem to prevent competition between dealers on new unit prices. Their rationale is that discounting new prices ultimately is reflected in second-hand values.

That seems fair enough to me. However if they were preventing you buying the same product in another market where it may be cheaper, that is restrictive practice as per the VW/Audi example.

Your beef seems to be that BMW won't discount. I can't see that it amounts to anti-competitive practice if there's no competitive prices in the first place. If 'X' is the price in England, Wales and Scotland and it's also 'X' in N.I, it's availability that seems to be affecting supply.

 

[Mzokk]

Mike I don't actually have a beef. What I'm saying is, is that Cartel price setting is anti competitive and therefore illegal. I've never bought a brand new BM but if I did, I'd be annoyed that I couldn't get the best price based on market conditions. There must be a vast difference in costs and overheads in various parts of the country, yet its not reflected in the price thats paid, as it is in relation to higher volume sales like cars and Japanese bikes. Ultimately we all pay for this type of behaviour. Some of us are happy too and some are not.