D Esa issues

Bobbyf · Apr 22, 2019

Hi, first post for me but I have been a reader of the forum for a while. Apologies for my first post being a request for help but I hope someone might be able to help me out with an issue I'm having with my suspension.
I bought a '17 R1200gs last summer and really like the bike. It's not my first BMW, I had an f800gs for a couple of years before trading it against the 1200. All was fine until the rear shock failed in January at 4000miles. I took it to Coopers in Sunderland who were great and fitted a new shock under warranty and I was back on the road within 3 days. Less than 1000 miles later.... the shock failed again. Back it went to Coopers who replaced the rear shock yet again. What are the chances of that eh? Coopers suspected a 'bad batch' of shocks. I'm sceptical to say the least but there you go. They claimed it was completely fixed and sent me on my way. Anyway I have the bike back and it is just not the same as before the (second) shock went. It is unbelievably saggy to the point where the bike wallows about when I ride it and I can stand over it with both feet touching the floor where as I used to only be able to put one foot down at a time. The D ESA seems to work when you toggle between Min and Max settings but when I switch it to auto its as if it drops to Min and is ridiculously soft for me? I understand that the D esa adjusts itself once your moving but even mid ride it remains extremely soft. When I switch to dynamic it firms things up a little but the bike still seems to sit really low. I intend to go back to Coopers this week and compare it side by side with another GS for piece of mind. Has anyone else had any experience of this? Is this normal and am I being paranoid? Rob

Deleted account 191119001 · Apr 22, 2019

Bobbyf said:
Hi, first post for me but I have been a reader of the forum for a while. Apologies for my first post being a request for help but I hope someone might be able to help me out with an issue I'm having with my suspension.
I bought a '17 R1200gs last summer and really like the bike. It's not my first BMW, I had an f800gs for a couple of years before trading it against the 1200. All was fine until the rear shock failed in January at 4000miles. I took it to Coopers in Sunderland who were great and fitted a new shock under warranty and I was back on the road within 3 days. Less than 1000 miles later.... the shock failed again. Back it went to Coopers who replaced the rear shock yet again. What are the chances of that eh? Coopers suspected a 'bad batch' of shocks. I'm sceptical to say the least but there you go. They claimed it was completely fixed and sent me on my way. Anyway I have the bike back and it is just not the same as before the (second) shock went. It is unbelievably saggy to the point where the bike wallows about when I ride it and I can stand over it with both feet touching the floor where as I used to only be able to put one foot down at a time. The D ESA seems to work when you toggle between Min and Max settings but when I switch it to auto its as if it drops to Min and is ridiculously soft for me? I understand that the D esa adjusts itself once your moving but even mid ride it remains extremely soft. When I switch to dynamic it firms things up a little but the bike still seems to sit really low. I intend to go back to Coopers this week and compare it side by side with another GS for piece of mind. Has anyone else had any experience of this? Is this normal and am I being paranoid? Rob

Nope you are doing exactly what you should do, not let go until your bike is fixed properly, a few on here have had ESA shocks fail in quick sucession, just make them sit on your bike next to a newer bike to compare, very simple to do.

Tractors are go · Apr 22, 2019

If, you get told; Ah yes Sir, they all do that.

Then ask for it in writing, so you can notify DVSA of a major safety concern which requires a recall.

Strangely, for some inexplicable reason, the attitude changes.

Synchronicity at work.

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CPJS · Apr 22, 2019

I wonder if they fitted a shock for a lowered chassis GS which sits 2" lower.
Shocks do fail, I am on my 3rd shock on a 19,000ml march '17 low chassis GS.

grimo · Apr 22, 2019

Maybe they fitted a shock for a low suspension in error, if your not happy take t back.

Bobbyf · Apr 22, 2019

Thanks for the replies. All I know is it was definitely not like this before it went in for its new shock. The whole thing is a mystery to me. When the shock went the first time in January at 4000 miles I was a bit miffed but it was sorted out quickly and efficiently so I just took it in the chin. When it went again a thousand miles later I was peeved off but Coopers were very good about it and even loaned me a brand new XR1000 for a week whilst they sorted it out. I can only think that no one test rode it because any mechanic worth their salt would know it is not right. When I spoke to the technician's before I picked it up on Thursday they said that fitting the shock is easy but the software programming takes the time up. I can't help thinking that this could be where the problem lies and that something hasn't been correctly calibrated. I will say at this point that I am certain no expert! I intend to take it back tomorrow and get them to actually look at it in my presence and tell me what they think. If they say its meant to be that soft I will tell them to compare it side by side with another GS so I can see with my own eyes!
It's very frustrating as after 25 years of riding bikes I can honestley say that this one ticks all the boxes for me but considering its the most expensive bike I've ever owned its giving me the biggest headaches!

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Tractors are go · Apr 22, 2019

Bobbyf said:
Thanks for the replies. All I know is it was definitely not like this before it went in for its new shock. The whole thing is a mystery to me. When the shock went the first time in January at 4000 miles I was a bit miffed but it was sorted out quickly and efficiently so I just took it in the chin. When it went again a thousand miles later I was peeved off but Coopers were very good about it and even loaned me a brand new XR1000 for a week whilst they sorted it out. I can only think that no one test rode it because any mechanic worth their salt would know it is not right. When I spoke to the technician's before I picked it up on Thursday they said that fitting the shock is easy but the software programming takes the time up. I can't help thinking that this could be where the problem lies and that something hasn't been correctly calibrated. I will say at this point that I am certain no expert! I intend to take it back tomorrow and get them to actually look at it in my presence and tell me what they think. If they say its meant to be that soft I will tell them to compare it side by side with another GS so I can see with my own eyes!
It's very frustrating as after 25 years of riding bikes I can honestley say that this one ticks all the boxes for me but considering its the most expensive bike I've ever owned its giving me the biggest headaches!

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Just look forward to being very happy, with your bike, once the issue is fixed.

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fred_jb · Apr 22, 2019

CPJS said:
I wonder if they fitted a shock for a lowered chassis GS which sits 2" lower.
Shocks do fail, I am on my 3rd shock on a 19,000ml march '17 low chassis GS.

I think the shock itself is only 2cm or 20mm shorter, the rest of the quoted seat height reduction is due to the automatic fitment of the low profile seat on the low chassis bike.

Bobbyf · Apr 23, 2019

I thought I'd post an update from my visit to Coopers this morning. They were happy to compare my bike side by side with an '18 GS they had in the showroom. When I tested them the functions on my bike were working exactly the same as theirs. It would seem that with my riding weight the auto D ESA sets itself to minimum preload, hence the low ride height. However a side by side test showed that my shock was considerably softer, hence the saggy, wallow feeling and very low seat height. It's booked back in for for the electronics to be re calibrated and to be checked for software updates. I'm frustrated that this wasn't done in the first place and am surprised that the technicians didn't notice the saggy suspension when they handed the bike back to me and I will be voicing my dissatisfaction at the appropriate time! Right now I just want the bike fixed so I can start getting some use out of it again.

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Neil W · Apr 23, 2019

Bobbyf said:
I thought I'd post an update from my visit to Coopers this morning. They were happy to compare my bike side by side with an '18 GS they had in the showroom. When I tested them the functions on my bike were working exactly the same as theirs. It would seem that with my riding weight the auto D ESA sets itself to minimum preload, hence the low ride height. However a side by side test showed that my shock was considerably softer, hence the saggy, wallow feeling and very low seat height. It's booked back in for for the electronics to be re calibrated and to be checked for software updates. I'm frustrated that this wasn't done in the first place and am surprised that the technicians didn't notice the saggy suspension when they handed the bike back to me and I will be voicing my dissatisfaction at the appropriate time! Right now I just want the bike fixed so I can start getting some use out of it again.

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The recalibration should be done when the new shock is fitted , I would be asking if it was done when the first shock was swapped ,also if the shock was setting itself too soft and was wallowing the chances are it may also be bottoming out or sitting on its bump stops and blew the seals of the first one and its replacement is heading down the same road.

I live 30 miles from Coopers and for good reason I drive 80 odd miles in the opposite direction to Dalkeith to deal with a competent motorcycle only dealership

Bobbyf · Apr 23, 2019

Neil W said:
The recalibration should be done when the new shock is fitted , I would be asking if it was done when the first shock was swapped ,also if the shock was setting itself too soft and was wallowing the chances are it may also be bottoming out or sitting on its bump stops and blew the seals of the first one and its replacement is heading down the same road.

I live 30 miles from Coopers and for good reason I drive 80 odd miles in the opposite direction to Dalkeith to deal with a competent motorcycle only dealership

I was thinking exactly the same thing- my theory is that the software hasn't been updated properly when they fitted the first shock and that there was probably nothing mechanically wrong with the second one. I'm just glad I was present today when they were compared side by side because without my persistence I've got a feeling it still wouldn't have been checked properly. Fingers crossed the software is the problem and the issue is fixed. I then may take your advise and travel to a dealer further afield in future!

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Pathologic · Apr 24, 2019

Once it gets to software updates that you can't see, I would be asking for evidence of change. for instance a print out/ photo of the software version ID pre and post update and maybe a printout of the calibration if that is possible. That would provide you with some evidence that they have done something!
I hope it is soon sorted. I don't have a water cooled bike, but the shocks on my hexhead failed earlier than I expected. I went for after market shocks that can be rebuilt. Stick to your guns for now, but it should be something to look at after the warrantee period.

They remain amazing bikes even with the quality issues from time. I hope your experience of them improves.

Path.

GSTourer · Apr 24, 2019

=+

Bobbyf said:
I thought I'd post an update from my visit to Coopers this morning. They were happy to compare my bike side by side with an '18 GS they had in the showroom. When I tested them the functions on my bike were working exactly the same as theirs. It would seem that with my riding weight the auto D ESA sets itself to minimum preload, hence the low ride height. However a side by side test showed that my shock was considerably softer, hence the saggy, wallow feeling and very low seat height. It's booked back in for for the electronics to be re calibrated and to be checked for software updates. I'm frustrated that this wasn't done in the first place and am surprised that the technicians didn't notice the saggy suspension when they handed the bike back to me and I will be voicing my dissatisfaction at the appropriate time! Right now I just want the bike fixed so I can start getting some use out of it again.

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.......when they got back from the test ride.

fred_jb · Apr 24, 2019

Bobbyf said:
I thought I'd post an update from my visit to Coopers this morning. They were happy to compare my bike side by side with an '18 GS they had in the showroom. When I tested them the functions on my bike were working exactly the same as theirs. It would seem that with my riding weight the auto D ESA sets itself to minimum preload, hence the low ride height. However a side by side test showed that my shock was considerably softer, hence the saggy, wallow feeling and very low seat height. It's booked back in for for the electronics to be re calibrated and to be checked for software updates. I'm frustrated that this wasn't done in the first place and am surprised that the technicians didn't notice the saggy suspension when they handed the bike back to me and I will be voicing my dissatisfaction at the appropriate time! Right now I just want the bike fixed so I can start getting some use out of it again.

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That sounds a bit suspect to me.

As I understand the bikes are programmed with a preferred ride height and front to rear attitude. All the AUTO preload mode does is to try to maintain that, so if the load on the bike is such that it sags below that preferred height it automatically applies some preload to correct it, though you should be aware that the correction only takes place some time after you start riding, so testing AUTO mode while stationary will tell them nothing, especially if it has previously been set on MIN because that is what it will remain at while stationary.

This being the case, there is no reason for the suspension to drop itself down to the the level it adopts when you choose the MIN preload setting as this is designed to make the bike ride as low as possible, and not at the preferred design height. Similarly the MAX preload setting is designed to raise the bike to its highest possible level for maximum ground clearance even if this results in the ride height being above the preferred standard.

It sounds to me like the dealer doesn't understand how this system works.

Neil W · Apr 24, 2019

Prefer a dealership where the mechanics are actual full time bike mechanics and not just any vehicle technician pulled away from the car side of the dealership franchise to 'job on' with a bike or two.

r1happy · Apr 24, 2019

Having dealt with that dealership I will never go there again. Like Neil I travel up to Dalkeith where they know what they’re doing and what customer service means!!

Bobbyf · Apr 24, 2019

I agree with many of the above comments. I don't believe that the bike was test ridden.
It took some pursuasion to get the technicians to try my bike back to back with a different one. Only by doing that is it apparent that mine is softer and lower.
I was aware that the auto pre load doesn't set itself until you're riding but does anyone know how far you have to ride?
I set both bikes to Max, then switched to auto and after a 2 min spin round the block both had dropped to the minimum pre load. Hence the reason the technicians saying this was the bikes preferred setting for my weight. Can't argue with that as both bikes did the same. Does the preload adjust itself to ride style and road surface? For example if I was riding enthusiastically on my favourite twisty road would it firm up compared to pootling rou d the block?

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fred_jb · Apr 24, 2019

Bobbyf said:
I agree with many of the above comments. I don't believe that the bike was test ridden.
It took some pursuasion to get the technicians to try my bike back to back with a different one. Only by doing that is it apparent that mine is softer and lower.
I was aware that the auto pre load doesn't set itself until you're riding but does anyone know how far you have to ride?
I set both bikes to Max, then switched to auto and after a 2 min spin round the block both had dropped to the minimum pre load. Hence the reason the technicians saying this was the bikes preferred setting for my weight. Can't argue with that as both bikes did the same. Does the preload adjust itself to ride style and road surface? For example if I was riding enthusiastically on my favourite twisty road would it firm up compared to pootling rou d the block?

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That is really puzzling.

You would expect the only situation where AUTO mode cannot maintain the normal design ride height, somewhere between the minimum and maximum settings, and would therefore run low, would be if the bike is overloaded and it runs out of preload to lift the rear to compensate. In the opposite situation, for a very lightweight rider, the only issue might be that the sag would be too little even if all preload is removed, and this would make the bike ride higher than designed.

I can't understand what they are saying about a low ride height is what the system prefers for your weight, unless you are very heavy indeed, i.e. as heavy as two normal people plus luggage which the bike is designed to cope with. If you are in a normal weight range then that is just complete nonsense, and sounds like it might be a calibration issue.

Bobbyf · Apr 24, 2019

I weigh 11 and a half stone so with riding gear, helmet, boots etc I would have thought I was pretty average weight. I'm surprised that Auto seems to think that it should be on minimum preload for my weight.

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Tractors are go · Apr 24, 2019

Bobbyf said:
I weigh 11 and a half stone.

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Lucky you !

I know it is an Aprilia but the Nord took about 100ft to settle down, it could occasionally "hunt" for the correct setting maybe once in three months or so.

Although I'd expect to claim that they all do this sir.

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