200 miles in........panniers already corroding!

So does my GSA. And it's never seen acf50.;)

Funny how Touratech panniers going rusty makes all the GS corrosion shit stirring start again.:rolleyes:

Mmmmmm......I wasn't meaning the odd sunny Sunday, I meant riding to work most days in rain & on salty, shitty roads :P

Anyway, I genuinely couldn't give a shit, if I didn't keep on top of cleaning the KTM I'm sure it would have rotted away before my eyes by now, just like any bike would. Engineer's just such a bellend that it's soooooooo hard to resist replying to the drivel he posts :D

Having said that..........I did own a Hexhead for ten years and know the odd one or two peeps that have 1100's, 1150's, Hexheads and WC's and with no axe to grind what so ever the quality of the earlier GS's is defo better than the Hexheads and WC as is the quality of my current Orange bike. It's just how it is, I'm not knocking the WC.

Andres
 
The ordinary vario panniers fitted to the GS are anodised and shouldn't corrode like that. You'd think the rufty tufty adventure style would be more durable. Maybe they think adventure bike riders appreciate a bit of instant patina.
 
Nutty may or may not back me up on this but i think that the build and finish of my XR is far and away better than it was on my GSA LC
 
Far and away or a bit? Why do you say that. Genuine question.

Quite a lot !
The paint seems thicker and better applied
The panels don't feel as flimsy
It just feels less cheap somehow


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Mmmmmm......I wasn't meaning the odd sunny Sunday, I meant riding to work most days in rain & on salty, shitty roads :P

Odd sunny Sunday? I think you're getting me mixed up with JB.:P

Nutty may or may not back me up on this but i think that the build and finish of my XR is far and away better than it was on my GSA LC

I wouldn't say far and away. In fact, the paint on the frame on the XR isn't that thick, as I dropped a bolt on it from a couple of inches away, and it chipped the paint.:blast

Time will tell though, as I've gone through my changing of bikes every 6 months phase, and will keep each one for 2 years, so I'll take loads of pictures of each after 2 years, and compare.:thumb

I've not been that meticulous with the cleaning of the GSA this winter, and have just rinsed it off/ dried it after each ride, and it seems to be holding up well so far.:;)
 
Rust??????

No rust here, 12 years old 55k ridden all year :)


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Like those mirrors, where, who,ect??, Thanks.
 
Paint? Mmmm I have a mate whose 15my GSA's rear subframe paint has worn through to the metal and the metal was so polished by the leg of his jeans that it looked like aluminium. He also has corrosion to his front subframe and engine :blast

What struck me is that in the area where the paint was worn through there were no signs whatsoever of any grey primer. It's as if BMW hadn't primed the frame before spraying it in a whisper thin coat of paint. He also has corrosion spots underneath the paint of the frame on both lower engine mounts. Note I said underneath the paint. When you look at it there is definitely a blue/purple colouring coming through the metal so much so you can feel the rust underneath the paint with your fingers. And all this from a bike that has only done 5500 miles and been ACF50'd from day one :confused:

On a positive note BMW have stood up to the plate and with a small amount of negotiation are getting him on to a 16my GSA :thumby:

I have 14my GSA that is also showing signs of corrosion to the trailing edge of the offside cylinder barrel so I'm assuming that BMW will probably want to change my engine? Time will tell :rolleyes:

An analogy that springs to mind is this:

We have a Brabantia bin in our kitchen. It's the 40 litre stainless steel jobbie. It cost about £80 when we bought it 5 years ago. It was considerably more expensive then any other bin in the shop outside of the Brabantia range. I consoled myself in the fact that Brabantia has an excellent reputation and a 10 year warranty. Quite why you would need a 10 year warranty on a kitchen bin was beyond me that is until in year two the lid on the bin failed so I ordered another lid which dually arrived.

18 months later the new bin lid failed so another replacement was supplied FOC. I noticed a link on their website which allowed me to leave feedback about my lid supplying experience so I did and on reading through other customers experiences realised that these bin lids are failing for a past time and all that Brabantia do is replace the lid FOC for the 10 year warranty period of the bin. Nobody it seems takes responsibility for the failures or asks the design team to go back to the drawing board and redesign the lid to prevent it failing in the first place :blast

So far we have had three replacement bin lids during of 6 year ownership period and guess what? Yes that's right. the third replacement lid failed earlier this week so I am now awaiting my fourth replacement. The cost of these lids to me so far had been £Zero. Brabantia charge £40 for them if you buy them as a replacement part plus they then have to post them from Belgium. How many more lids will fail over the next four years is a guess but going by current trends I am expecting a further two at least :augie

My mate is happy with the way that BMW have handled his problem but he wishes that he wasn't having to go through this type of episode every few years. Did I forget to mention that his corroded 15my GSA was a replacement for his corroded 13my GS ?

Now if only BMW had a 10 year warranty like Brabantia :rolleyes:
 
Hah! The corrosion topic again. As stated above, you cant stop chemistry and reactivity if you don't put a preventative barrier in between. And, aluminium oxide is as stated a barrier to further corrosion (unlike rust on ferrous metals). So what we are talking about here, apart form corrosion on the frames I'm guessing, is all to do with aesthetics. I guess if I'd shelled out that amount of money on something that I want to look at and get off on, as opposed to really use in anger which is what GSs were originally designed to do, I'd be pissed off too.

While we're on the topic, I've had a 1150 GSA SE which got really used and now have a low mileage 150 GSA which replaced it. I've also had airheads and currently have a beautiful 100 GSPD. The difference between corrosion on the engine and other mechanical casings is remarkable. It comes down to the casting being painted on the newer models (water gets underneath and it corrodes) whereas on the airheads, no paint means they just oxidise evenly. The old ones you can sort out if you really want to - soda blast for example, but I'm not sure its possible to rectify the new casting so easily. I'm not at all convinced by covering something that is going to get really hot and cold then hot again with paint is a great idea. But then I guess all you guys with £17k to throw at depreciating eye candy may think differently.
 
Paint? Mmmm I have a mate whose 15my GSA's rear subframe paint has worn through to the metal and the metal was so polished by the leg of his jeans that it looked like aluminium. He also has corrosion to his front subframe and engine :blast

What struck me is that in the area where the paint was worn through there were no signs whatsoever of any grey primer. It's as if BMW hadn't primed the frame before spraying it in a whisper thin coat of paint. He also has corrosion spots underneath the paint of the frame on both lower engine mounts. Note I said underneath the paint. When you look at it there is definitely a blue/purple colouring coming through the metal so much so you can feel the rust underneath the paint with your fingers. And all this from a bike that has only done 5500 miles and been ACF50'd from day one :confused:

On a positive note BMW have stood up to the plate and with a small amount of negotiation are getting him on to a 16my GSA :thumby:

I have 14my GSA that is also showing signs of corrosion to the trailing edge of the offside cylinder barrel so I'm assuming that BMW will probably want to change my engine? Time will tell :rolleyes:

An analogy that springs to mind is this:

We have a Brabantia bin in our kitchen. It's the 40 litre stainless steel jobbie. It cost about £80 when we bought it 5 years ago. It was considerably more expensive then any other bin in the shop outside of the Brabantia range. I consoled myself in the fact that Brabantia has an excellent reputation and a 10 year warranty. Quite why you would need a 10 year warranty on a kitchen bin was beyond me that is until in year two the lid on the bin failed so I ordered another lid which dually arrived.

18 months later the new bin lid failed so another replacement was supplied FOC. I noticed a link on their website which allowed me to leave feedback about my lid supplying experience so I did and on reading through other customers experiences realised that these bin lids are failing for a past time and all that Brabantia do is replace the lid FOC for the 10 year warranty period of the bin. Nobody it seems takes responsibility for the failures or asks the design team to go back to the drawing board and redesign the lid to prevent it failing in the first place :blast

So far we have had three replacement bin lids during of 6 year ownership period and guess what? Yes that's right. the third replacement lid failed earlier this week so I am now awaiting my fourth replacement. The cost of these lids to me so far had been £Zero. Brabantia charge £40 for them if you buy them as a replacement part plus they then have to post them from Belgium. How many more lids will fail over the next four years is a guess but going by current trends I am expecting a further two at least :augie

My mate is happy with the way that BMW have handled his problem but he wishes that he wasn't having to go through this type of episode every few years. Did I forget to mention that his corroded 15my GSA was a replacement for his corroded 13my GS ?

Now if only BMW had a 10 year warranty like Brabantia :rolleyes:

That's a crap story, really bad news and very poor quality








I'm never buying a Brabantia bin again
 
....................................
My mate is happy with the way that BMW have handled his problem but he wishes that he wasn't having to go through this type of episode every few years. Did I forget to mention that his corroded 15my GSA was a replacement for his corroded 13my GS ?

Now if only BMW had a 10 year warranty like Brabantia :rolleyes:

Both the Brabantia example and the way WBM are generally so good a resolving customer issue seem crazy on the face of it as warranty claims must cost them a fortune.

Taking the bin as a simple example, they are refunding half the retail on a lot of bins every 2 years..................

However, you have to assume, particularly in the case of WMB that they aren't stoopid and have done the maths meaning their bottom line is better off sourcing cheaper parts and having to replace x% than it would be to source better quality parts.

I guess with the prevalence of PCP deals and thus people not keeping bikes for long they can get away with it more easily :nenau and as the first owner on PCP you know pretty much what the trade in value (which is set by the manufacturer) will be as long as you stay within the BWM fold for your next bike so residuals are not too much of a worry.

As long as MBW keep the tills rolling on a regular basis through trapping punters into PCP deals they continue to shift volume and keep their cash flow nice and healthy..........

Like I say they aren't stoopid so the sums must add up.

Somebody might say "what about WMB's reputation for building quality bikes"? Well, TBH their bikes are still, on balance, a cut above a lot of manufacturers and they seem to be selling rather a lot more than back in the day when quality was far more important to them so, from a business point of view, they would seem to have got that fine line between quality and profit just about right.

Of course, there's nothing to stop peeps who don't like the above taking their money elsewhere but I doubt, currently, BWM will lose any sleep over it :D

Andres
 
...................... I guess all you guys with £17k to throw at depreciating eye candy may think differently.


Except, I'm willing to bet that 90% of those with £17k bikes can't afford to buy a bike for that much :nenau

BWM are masters at the PCP thang and, just like it seems the default way for people to buy cars they can't really afford so it is now with bikes. Have you noticed, over the past year or so, how the Jap manufacturers ads now nearly all advertise the PCP price as the main cost with the retail hidden somewhere in the small print? WMB started it but the rest are catching up fast.............................

Andres
 
I guess with the prevalence of PCP deals and thus people not keeping bikes for long they can get away with it more easily :nenau and as the first owner on PCP you know pretty much what the trade in value (which is set by the manufacturer) will be as long as you stay within the BWM fold for your next bike so residuals are not too much of a worry.

As long as MBW keep the tills rolling on a regular basis through trapping punters into PCP deals they continue to shift volume and keep their cash flow nice and healthy..........

Like I say they aren't stoopid so the sums must add up.


You have twatted that one right on the head Andres :clap

PCP purchasers know how much their bike will be worth and if it goes back hanging in corrosion in two years time then that's up to BMW warranty then eh? :augie

Buy an ex PCP bike then the old adage of "the price you paid was reflected in the condition of the bike at the time of purchase" slips neatly in to place

Oh, you want to claim for the corrosion on your recently purchased 2 year old bike under the supplied 12 month BMW Used Bike Warranty? I suggest you read the T&C's before you waste your time :blast

Don't get me wrong. I love my BMW's. However, when my 57000 mile old 06 that's been ridden through eight winters is holding up much better than a 14 month old bike from the same manufacturer with less than a tenth of the miles under the wheels you have to question why?
 
Except, I'm willing to bet that 90% of those with £17k bikes can't afford to buy a bike for that much :nenau

BWM are masters at the PCP thang and, just like it seems the default way for people to buy cars they can't really afford so it is now with bikes. Have you noticed, over the past year or so, how the Jap manufacturers ads now nearly all advertise the PCP price as the main cost with the retail hidden somewhere in the small print? WMB started it but the rest are catching up fast.............................

Andres

Now that and your previous post is absolutely spot on.
 
One of the reasons manufacturers struggle with finishes these days is that RoHS requirements have become very strict, but an educated person would know that - but now that I have explained it to you, you now also know :)

That's interesting and I can believe it. I was also told by a metallurgist a couple of years ago that the corrosion rate of the aluminium engine parts may be greater on modern bikes due to the make up of the alloy. I forget the breakdown of constituent metals, but the 'recipe' has changes to facilitate CAM. The cutting speeds of CNC machines are far greater than those used by manual versions and consequently, different alloys are required to facilitate this. Can any one on here confirm this?
 
Put salt and water on an alloy.Any alloy will do but one containing aluminium would be perfect.Add a little heat.The result is oxidation.Whenever the alloy was made.The chemical reaction hasn't changed.If you want to avoid corrosion, wash the salt off after every ride in winter.If you can't be arsed, fair enough but stop the tiresome moaning about it.
 


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