2009 R1200GS

If the boxer is to go I would guess the best thing that BMW could do would be to make a larger bore/stroke version of the F800 engine. Say 1100/1200cc, similar characteristics to the 800 with more power and torque and hopefully better reliability! (than the 1200 boxer)

I for one won't ride a beemer with a KTM engine, or any other manufacturers for that.:eek
 
If the boxer is to go I would guess the best thing that BMW could do would be to make a larger bore/stroke version of the F800 engine. Say 1100/1200cc, similar characteristics to the 800 with more power and torque and hopefully better reliability! (than the 1200 boxer)
Click to expand...

Why do you say that the 1200 boxer engine is unreliable ?

Do you know something? :nenau
 
Yeah, the engine is fine. Its just the parts attached to it that have issues.

But seriously. I've not heard of too many boxers dying apart from the odd valve dropped which could be due to user contributed factors.
 
wilbjr21 said:
Why do you say that the 1200 boxer engine is unreliable ?

Do you know something? :nenau
Click to expand...

Perhaps unreliable was a little harsh. Obviously dropped valves are rare but that isn't much of a consilation to those it has happened to. The point I'm trying to make is that a paralell twin is a much simpler engine and should be cheaper to run/maintain Have you ever checked out the cost of having a clutch replaced on a 1200GS? I did and nearly fell over. That alone would make me happier with a paralell twin and since the wife has bought her 650GS I could well be tempted to consider the 800 when I change my bike. Of course, if BMW are doing a bigger paralell twin by then I'd be happy to try it.
 
Those Boxer fans who are equating the introduction of the original K-Series and BMW's desire to drop the Boxer with the current situation are missing two important factors:

In the early 80's, it was simply a desire to drop the Boxer that was the spur for BMW (for a variety of reasons such as rationalisation of production and reduced R&D).

Now any decision regarding the Boxer's longevity is really in the hands of the EU legislators. The noise pollution requirements will kill the air-cooled Boxer. This won't be retro-active (as it wasn't with two-stroke), any engine in production at the time the new regulations are introduced will be permitted to remain in production but won't be allowed any major changes (I think that's the reason for the 2008 upgrades; get them in place now to extend the model life/maximise potential return on tooling etc.).

Also viz the situation when the K100 was launched:

BMW made no other bikes than Boxers. All their customer base were Boxer owners and BMW didn't have a large customer base that was switching to the new K-Series.

Today the situation is very different. BMW have sold singles, parallel-twins, K-Series "Bricks" and across-the-frame K's to people who have never owned (or desired) a Boxer.

There's a huge number of BMW owners out there to whom the Boxer is irrelevant.

BMW don't make bikes because they want to. They make them because it makes money. While they may maintain BMW "Tradition" for as long as possible, once it becomes financially problematic, they will have to change (as they have done with the K Bricks, F-Series, belt-drive, chain-drive: All things that were once contrary to BMW "Tradition").

They may find a way around the noise pollution with a water-cooled Boxer but I suggest that it will come down to a fine balance of economics. The question will be: Develop a Boxer that meets the restrictions or concentrate on the water-cooled models that they already sell in vast numbers?

As much as I'm a big fan of the Boxer, my money is on it being dropped. It is my guess that it will soldier on for a while, particularly in the GS and maybe the RT too.
 
There must be a few years left in the old Boxer otherwise WBM wouldn't have, this year, unveiled concept bikes using the R1200 lump :nenau

Andres
 
A bloody Lombardini fire pump engine in a tiger frame....looks like a dog to me. BM could do much better with their diesel expertise.
 
Surely it comes down to economics and consumer demand. Has the 1200 Boxer not been the best selling BVM bike of all time (so far), if the demand is there and there is money to be made from sales, why change the formula? Sure they can tweak to meet emmisions laws and as mpg becomes an issue the boxheads are bound to release a diesel powered machine in the future. I'm sure there would be a fair few number of people riding GS's that would switch to an oil burner with 100mpg and loads of torque, if it came into production (me included).
 
Even if the Euro emissions rules prevent them from updating the model because they can't improve the engine enough, they'll keep producing a boxer twin until the sales decline to the point where it no longer makes sense. By then they will either have a replacement or will be out of the motorcycle business.
 
:rob If it weren't for BMW Motorrad, BMW AG would not exist today - their motorcycles and the motorcycle-engined Isettas carried the company through the Fifties until the 114 / E6 / E10 / E12 and E3 series took off in the Sixties.

I don't see the family selling off Motorrad to anyone else.
(Would you buy a GS without the blue and white roundel on the tank...?) :augie

That other sports-car brand tried to 'con' the world into accepting the 924/944 and 928s instead of the 911 and the marketing head was quoted as saying that despite their best efforts, their customers continue to order the flat-six aircooled BOXER motor car. They had no option but to develop the design similarly to BMW and went oil-cooled and watercooled to meet the EU noise control measures.

I don't see the current economic melt-down forcing manufacturers out of business because they can't make emission targets...or am I stupid?

I reckon we may see diesel-engined LT's and such, and the Husqvarna link will also cross-pollenate into the Motorrad line-up, I have no doubt.

Until then, I've got a new face-lift 1200GS BOXER to keep me happy...:beerjug:
 
MikeP said:
As much as I'm a big fan of the Boxer, my money is on it being dropped. It is my guess that it will soldier on for a while, particularly in the GS and maybe the RT too.
Click to expand...

You're quite right Mike- you and I have a tenner on it I believe :augie

Watching with interest :D
 
Fudmucker said:
I don't see the family selling off Motorrad to anyone else.
(Would you buy a GS without the blue and white roundel on the tank...?)
Click to expand...

Interesting question....and the answer for me is absolutely positively YES.

I don't give a monkey's tit who the bike is made by- it's the bike I like, not the Marque.

I don't ever say I ride a BMW- I ride a GS- in fact, the way that BMW have dealt with some of the QC issues in recent years, I suspect I'd be rather glad if I could buy a GS that wasn't made by the bean counting Bavarians :)
 
Surely it comes down to economics and consumer demand. Has the 1200 Boxer not been the best selling BVM bike of all time (so far), if the demand is there and there is money to be made from sales, why change the formula? Sure they can tweak to meet emmisions laws and as mpg becomes an issue the boxheads are bound to release a diesel powered machine in the future. I'm sure there would be a fair few number of people riding GS's that would switch to an oil burner with 100mpg and loads of torque, if it came into production (me included).
__________________
Click to expand...

I saw a new car delivered to a dealers today, the stickers down the side read "the worlds first diesel powered boxer engine"

T'was a new Subaru.
 
.....my biker colleagues (consultants) in Germany have been telling me for sometime now that they have seen test mules running around on detuned
K1300 engines...:ronno:ronno

...They reckon on 110bhp with well in excess of 100ft of torque...:thumb:thumb

They are telling me that BMW long term bet (strategy) is RACING bikes &
not Adv bikes?

If you want a boxer maybe you should get one soon before they disappear...??:bounce1:bounce1
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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