engine problems willn't start fire
- Thread starter adamneeds
- Start date
st247
Registered user
You'll have had the tank off, and if i remember rightly the ecu's probably unplugged and moved, to change the alternator. If i was you i'd start by re-checking that you've replaced all the ecu's and connectors correctly. Just unplugging them and refitting shouldn't have caused any ecu faults.
Then I'd have a look at the fuel tank quick release connections on the right hand side and the quick release connections at the fuel pump. It could be that one of these isn't correctly fitted.
If you still have no joy you could try removing one of the injectors, taping it into a plastic drinks bottle and turning it over to see if your getting fuel injected (might be worth taping the opening up so it doesn't suck any crap in).
Assuming that all you have is a small leak at the cylinder head (and not a valve sized hole in the piston) it should start, even if it runs as rough as fuck, though i'd be tempted to repair that before I went any further.
Then I'd have a look at the fuel tank quick release connections on the right hand side and the quick release connections at the fuel pump. It could be that one of these isn't correctly fitted.
If you still have no joy you could try removing one of the injectors, taping it into a plastic drinks bottle and turning it over to see if your getting fuel injected (might be worth taping the opening up so it doesn't suck any crap in).
Assuming that all you have is a small leak at the cylinder head (and not a valve sized hole in the piston) it should start, even if it runs as rough as fuck, though i'd be tempted to repair that before I went any further.
Nobbyspiles
Registered user
Hi Adam,
after reading this entire thread, I will attempt to give you some pointers mate, I was able to make fine sense of what you wrote and just thought you weren't great in the English grammar dept. DYSLEXIA RULES KO...
Well hoping one on the many fonts of knowledge maybe able to help. and i will not require a trip to the dealer as more then a capable home mechanic. and no way of getting bike to the dealer.
I know how you feel not wanting to take it to the dealer as it can become very expensive very quickly mate. Admirable of you to get the spanners out and get in there instead of just trundling it down on a trailer, handing over a wad and saying "Here, fix that for me"..
.
Small oil leak from right hand cylinder due to snapped head bolt
This should have been fine as long as you weren't losing compression from the cylinder and it was only leaking a small amount of oil. I have seen many a bike weep oil from head gasket, especially round the cam chain tunnel and run fine for extended periods. How did the bolt snap and are you sure it is an actual head bolt you meant or is it just the rocker cover bolt broken? The former would require checking the head for warping and may need skimmed before replacing the head gasket, the latter would be a simple bolt replacement. Replacing the head gasket is relatively easy on these bikes compared to an inline 4 by the way, as you only have one on each side
What I have done
Upgraded to a denso 60A instead of 40A from sherlocks 1457 miles use wiring has been upgraded to suit additional amperage.
When you say upgraded, what do you mean by that and why did you feel the need to? Did you purchase a BMW loom or just replace some wires? Was it one of these kits?
http://www.james-sherlock.co.uk/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.browse
You have not enough electrical extras to justify the bigger alternator. (Not that it matters though). It has built in regulator, and when running you should get the following readings with a multimeter across the battery.
Make sure the battery is fully charged.
Run bike a fast idle and meter set at 0-20V DC
Meter should indicate 13-15 Volts, (positive and negative wires from meter to the corresponding battery terminals)
Select High beam, voltage may drop momentarily, but should return to 13-15V
If it doesn't then the built in regulator may be faulty and would need further investigation. You can check this when you get it running
Strip heads check clearances 0.6,0.12
Are these the figures you used or is that a typo? (.15mm/.006" on the intakes, .30mm/.012"on the exhausts is what they should be).
Here is a link to the procedure in case you didn't follow exactly
http://www.r1200gs.info/howto/valve-adj.html
Spark plugs black so replaced with 4 new plugs good clean spark.all 4 have a strong spark
If you have a spark then it's either coming at the wrong time or there is no fuel to ignite. Check out the NGK link below for guidance on the blackening thing. It sounds as if you might have a dirty air filter too. When it's dirty, it makes the fuel burn less cleanly as there is not enough Oxygen getting through it to support combustion. resulting in a sooty deposit on the plugs.
Tried again still no start however engine compression is pushing air out of cylinder head gasket on the right cylinder(small amount of oil)in a splatter type pattern and exhaust has compressed gas being pushed out of it.
You need to be clearer exactly what you meean there boyo, Is it leaking from the head gasket or not on the RH side. It has been suggested in an earlier reply to do a compression test. I would concur on that.
Here are some figures for guidance
Compression test pressure
Good min. 10 bar
Normal 8.5 - 10 bar
Poor less than 8.5 bar
Tried using easy start,
Throw that shit in the bin. If you can't get it to start normally after a few presses of the starter then that is not the tool to reach for...!]
Have checked fuel pump controller believe its working utilised a bypass just in case still no joy.
What was the bypass? Like this one?
http://www.motorcycleinfo.co.uk/index.cfm?fa=contentGeneric.nvxszdkebklxuaer&pageId=428065
Both sets of batteries on charge as currently lacking power and trying to start bike is killing them quickly.
If you don't get this diagnosed then you will burn your starter motor out next.
Batteries show voltage drop from the starter using multimeter.
What exactly is this test telling you if the bike is not running, other than it's flattening the battery? Yes, it's pointless.
I would suggest the following course of action,
Mecahanical/Ignition/Fuel
Do a compression test
If you have permissable/adequate compression, in the cylinders as described above, fix your oil leak, (you might as well do it at this stage)
If there is a difference in the cylinders reading then you need to investigate why. It could be any of the following, head gasket, valve clearances incorrect ie too tight, worn rings, cracked or warped cylinder head. Permissible varience in the cylinders would be no more than 10% absolute max.
Check your ignition timing even though you think you have not disturbed it. At least then you can eliminate it from the list of possible causes.
Sounds like there is no fuel getting there to ignite so, start at the beginning, (and I'm not being smart here either) but there is fuel in the tank, is it getting to the injectors etc etc. Possibly the injectors are not being told to squirt fuel in at all, which would indicate an EMU problem (no Rod Hull jokes at this point... Engine Management Unit) If you do turn it over for a while and it doesn't start, then the pugs will be either very wet or else dry. The former indicates a lack of spark (which you say you have) and the latter indicates a lack of fuel getting to the plugs to be ignited. The post below is excellent re the fuel diagnosis.
I hope this reply has been of some help. I will sub to the thread and if you need any more advice, just holler. Let us know how you get on.
Here's some useful links in the meantime.
http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/engine.htm
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_support/spark_plugs/p2.asp
http://www.motorcycleanchor.com/motorcycle/how_to/mc_octane.html
http://bikearama.com/how-to/engine-compression-test/
after reading this entire thread, I will attempt to give you some pointers mate, I was able to make fine sense of what you wrote and just thought you weren't great in the English grammar dept. DYSLEXIA RULES KO...
Well hoping one on the many fonts of knowledge maybe able to help. and i will not require a trip to the dealer as more then a capable home mechanic. and no way of getting bike to the dealer.
I know how you feel not wanting to take it to the dealer as it can become very expensive very quickly mate. Admirable of you to get the spanners out and get in there instead of just trundling it down on a trailer, handing over a wad and saying "Here, fix that for me"..
.Small oil leak from right hand cylinder due to snapped head bolt
This should have been fine as long as you weren't losing compression from the cylinder and it was only leaking a small amount of oil. I have seen many a bike weep oil from head gasket, especially round the cam chain tunnel and run fine for extended periods. How did the bolt snap and are you sure it is an actual head bolt you meant or is it just the rocker cover bolt broken? The former would require checking the head for warping and may need skimmed before replacing the head gasket, the latter would be a simple bolt replacement. Replacing the head gasket is relatively easy on these bikes compared to an inline 4 by the way, as you only have one on each side
What I have done
Upgraded to a denso 60A instead of 40A from sherlocks 1457 miles use wiring has been upgraded to suit additional amperage.
When you say upgraded, what do you mean by that and why did you feel the need to? Did you purchase a BMW loom or just replace some wires? Was it one of these kits?
http://www.james-sherlock.co.uk/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.browse
You have not enough electrical extras to justify the bigger alternator. (Not that it matters though). It has built in regulator, and when running you should get the following readings with a multimeter across the battery.
Make sure the battery is fully charged.
Run bike a fast idle and meter set at 0-20V DC
Meter should indicate 13-15 Volts, (positive and negative wires from meter to the corresponding battery terminals)
Select High beam, voltage may drop momentarily, but should return to 13-15V
If it doesn't then the built in regulator may be faulty and would need further investigation. You can check this when you get it running
Strip heads check clearances 0.6,0.12
Are these the figures you used or is that a typo? (.15mm/.006" on the intakes, .30mm/.012"on the exhausts is what they should be).
Here is a link to the procedure in case you didn't follow exactly
http://www.r1200gs.info/howto/valve-adj.html
Spark plugs black so replaced with 4 new plugs good clean spark.all 4 have a strong spark
If you have a spark then it's either coming at the wrong time or there is no fuel to ignite. Check out the NGK link below for guidance on the blackening thing. It sounds as if you might have a dirty air filter too. When it's dirty, it makes the fuel burn less cleanly as there is not enough Oxygen getting through it to support combustion. resulting in a sooty deposit on the plugs.
Tried again still no start however engine compression is pushing air out of cylinder head gasket on the right cylinder(small amount of oil)in a splatter type pattern and exhaust has compressed gas being pushed out of it.
You need to be clearer exactly what you meean there boyo, Is it leaking from the head gasket or not on the RH side. It has been suggested in an earlier reply to do a compression test. I would concur on that.
Here are some figures for guidance
Compression test pressure
Good min. 10 bar
Normal 8.5 - 10 bar
Poor less than 8.5 bar
Tried using easy start,
Throw that shit in the bin. If you can't get it to start normally after a few presses of the starter then that is not the tool to reach for...!]
Have checked fuel pump controller believe its working utilised a bypass just in case still no joy.
What was the bypass? Like this one?
http://www.motorcycleinfo.co.uk/index.cfm?fa=contentGeneric.nvxszdkebklxuaer&pageId=428065
Both sets of batteries on charge as currently lacking power and trying to start bike is killing them quickly.
If you don't get this diagnosed then you will burn your starter motor out next.
Batteries show voltage drop from the starter using multimeter.
What exactly is this test telling you if the bike is not running, other than it's flattening the battery? Yes, it's pointless.
I would suggest the following course of action,
Mecahanical/Ignition/Fuel
Do a compression test
If you have permissable/adequate compression, in the cylinders as described above, fix your oil leak, (you might as well do it at this stage)
If there is a difference in the cylinders reading then you need to investigate why. It could be any of the following, head gasket, valve clearances incorrect ie too tight, worn rings, cracked or warped cylinder head. Permissible varience in the cylinders would be no more than 10% absolute max.
Check your ignition timing even though you think you have not disturbed it. At least then you can eliminate it from the list of possible causes.
Sounds like there is no fuel getting there to ignite so, start at the beginning, (and I'm not being smart here either) but there is fuel in the tank, is it getting to the injectors etc etc. Possibly the injectors are not being told to squirt fuel in at all, which would indicate an EMU problem (no Rod Hull jokes at this point... Engine Management Unit) If you do turn it over for a while and it doesn't start, then the pugs will be either very wet or else dry. The former indicates a lack of spark (which you say you have) and the latter indicates a lack of fuel getting to the plugs to be ignited. The post below is excellent re the fuel diagnosis.
I hope this reply has been of some help. I will sub to the thread and if you need any more advice, just holler. Let us know how you get on.
Here's some useful links in the meantime.
http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/engine.htm
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_support/spark_plugs/p2.asp
http://www.motorcycleanchor.com/motorcycle/how_to/mc_octane.html
http://bikearama.com/how-to/engine-compression-test/
Nobbyspiles
Registered user
Nobbyspiles
Registered user
What I have done
Upgraded to a denso 60A instead of 40A from sherlocks 1457 miles use wiring has been upgraded to suit additional amperage.
See this thread .......... which alternator do you have now?
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300184
http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product_p/bmw-alt4-fslash-907.htm
http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/category-s/24.htm
I posted the thread below but think its not what you have, sorry.
http://www.james-sherlock.co.uk/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.browse
Upgraded to a denso 60A instead of 40A from sherlocks 1457 miles use wiring has been upgraded to suit additional amperage.
See this thread .......... which alternator do you have now?
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300184
http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product_p/bmw-alt4-fslash-907.htm
http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/category-s/24.htm
I posted the thread below but think its not what you have, sorry.
http://www.james-sherlock.co.uk/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.browse
Nobbyspiles
Registered user
Is it fixed yet?
mark-a
Registered user
hey Adam, don't get too uptight on some of the replies, start with the basics,
Suck, Squash, Bang, Fart, one of these isn't doing the job properly if fuel is getting into the engine.
Follow the advice given methodically and you should get a result.
As an aside, it may have been better if you'd posted on this site before you got so far down the road with your own solutions, the problem would have been so much easier to understand. I myself am a 'competent' diy mechanic, having worked on my own four-stroke (and smoker) bikes for 30some years. However it is crucial to know one's limitations, and would not hesitate to ask advice from this site, especially with these bikes, numerous 'tossers' have been there and done that and have invaluable advice, given freely.
Don't be too quick to 'flash' at some of the comments, most (not all) are well intended.
Good luck with the bike though.
Suck, Squash, Bang, Fart, one of these isn't doing the job properly if fuel is getting into the engine.
Follow the advice given methodically and you should get a result.
As an aside, it may have been better if you'd posted on this site before you got so far down the road with your own solutions, the problem would have been so much easier to understand. I myself am a 'competent' diy mechanic, having worked on my own four-stroke (and smoker) bikes for 30some years. However it is crucial to know one's limitations, and would not hesitate to ask advice from this site, especially with these bikes, numerous 'tossers' have been there and done that and have invaluable advice, given freely.
Don't be too quick to 'flash' at some of the comments, most (not all) are well intended.
Good luck with the bike though.
Last edited:
Schreeching noise
This would sound like a slack alternator belt, it does make a frightening noise
so rather than a seized alternator sorting the belt out would be a good place to start!. Than take it to a BMW dealer.
Dave GS
This would sound like a slack alternator belt, it does make a frightening noise
so rather than a seized alternator sorting the belt out would be a good place to start!. Than take it to a BMW dealer.
Dave GS
Nobbyspiles
Registered user
He says it was in sh*te
"bike stripped down center stand TDC in 6th to check if siezed rear wheel rotated to discovery engine not siezed cycled though fine however alternator starter in pieces-new one ordered and fitted-"
I am guessing starter is a typo, I reckon he means stator
Nobbyspiles
Registered user
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