I think taking the can off to grease the inside of the exhaust valve is above and beyond normal maintenance. Just taking the cover off and greasing the mechanism on the outside does nothing, as the thing seizes on the spindle inside. Anything you put inside will just burn off eventually. The failure isn't milage related or to lack of use, on my RT I have had two failures, one at about 5k 2.5 years after the bike was built, when I bought it, the bike had 1.5k on it, so hadn't been used much. But since then the bike has covered 18k in all weathers and the flap started queuing again a month ago. The BMW tech greased it, which lasted about a week before it started squeaking again, so they replaced the headers again. So I would say its a bad design and if the flap hasn't seized yet, you are lucky. On older bikes the flap used to be in a separate piece of pipe, so you only had to buy that bit or stick a bit of pipe in without the flap, building it into the headers was a mistake IMHO
Exhaust flap drama. BMW aren't listening.
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I put high temp anti seize nikel in there, that aint burning off, I gave the link to help if needed to buy, it is way cheaper in Germany.
https://www.dittmar-sba.de/WEICON-Anti-Seize-ASN-120-P-Nickel-Spezial-26050012.html
Yes I saw the link and saved it
But as I have new headers, I'm hoping by the time the flap gives up the job again, I won't have the bike. If I buy a new bike, I won't worry about it for 3 years, let Mr BMW shoulder the cost. As an aside, are the 1250s using the same setup?
Can anyone tell me if (when) the valve seizes, does it throw an engine management warning light or is it just as a coded fault detected via OBD link? If the former, has anyone managed to code out the warning light for this "fault". Mine's just out of warranty and I have no appetite for shelling out £1500 to fit something that I know will fail again.
On my bike there was no warning light or error code. But I could hear the servo motor squeak every time I cycled the ignition. So my issue might not have been a fully seized valve, just one that was well on the way there.
If I encounter the issue again (which won't be covered by my recently purchased extended warranty) , I'll simply disable the lot as it seems that once the valve is in the fully open position, there's no issue with the bike running properly.
Which parts did you apply the Anti Seize too? and did you do this before it had started to cause a problem or after?
I'm asking as I'm quite happy to strip it down and apply this if it stops it seizing down the road, but as the unit looked like it has sealed graphite bearings i could see how you would get anything in it to stop it seizing and also wasn't sure if the anti seize compound could react with the graphite and therefore either cause an issue or possibly invalidate a warranty replacement should the bike still be in warranty as mine is.
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I put anti seize roughly anywhere metal flap came into contact with metal, and gave the flap a thin coat also, it only needs a thin coat, and I do it basically when bike was new, having read about the problem here, bike now 18 months and not a squeak from the little flap, as for invalidating warranty I have no idea, but surely we are allowed to grease our bikes..........
pictures below of mine before and after.http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showth...st-valve-seizure/page7?highlight=exhaust+flap
Have just removed the heatshield and valve actuator cover. Happily, my 15K miles GSA's valve seems to be in perfect working order but I wasn't best pleased to note that at the last dealer service, they had neglected to clean off the spring & carrier or lube the cable and sheath which were as dry as a bone (heat build up doesn't help). Just to make things easier on the actuator motor, I squirted some acf50 into the cable sheath, cleaned off the return spring and carrier and will lube the whole lot once my HMP nickle grease arrives. Don't see any reason why with regular maintenance and checks these things should be failing. After all, EGR valves on cars operate under equally harsh environments and they often go on for 100K miles. It's at least given peace of mind to see that it's a simple device and that there is sufficient access to clean the valve and spindle once the end can is removed.
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Well as you know well, it is easier to complain than to fix something for some................
few extra good tips cheers.........
Well as you know well, it is easier to complain than to fix something for some................
It really doesn't look like the big deal that I had thought it might be.
As for BMW claiming that it's a "non serviceable item"...wow...what a cop out! That's why the blessed things are failing.
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It really doesn't look like the big deal that I had thought it might be.
As for BMW claiming that it's a "non serviceable item"...wow...what a cop out! That's why the blessed things are failing.
Yep load of rubbish, if you grease it before it totally fails it should be good, if it has rusted totally inside the bearings, well that is another story, so a little prevention goes a long way, I mean we bought our bikes cash and should really look after them, unless part of the PCP squad...
Yep load of rubbish, if you grease it before it totally fails it should be good, if it has rusted totally inside the bearings, well that is another story, so a little prevention goes a long way, I mean we bought our bikes cash and should really look after them, unless part of the PCP squad...
+1 agreed
Yep load of rubbish, if you grease it before it totally fails it should be good, if it has rusted totally inside the bearings, well that is another story, so a little prevention goes a long way, I mean we bought our bikes cash and should really look after them, unless part of the PCP squad...
But there is no bearing, it is just a spindle inside the flap that goes into a fibre washer. As for 18 months old and still going strong, my first one didn't fail until 30 months. Second started making a squeak exactly 2 years later, it hadn't failed but a squeak probably means it will seize shortly. You can't get to the bottom spindle mounting point from the outside. Happy flap greasing chaps
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But there is no bearing, it is just a spindle inside the flap that goes into a fibre washer. As for 18 months old and still going strong, my first one didn't fail until 30 months. Second started making a squeak exactly 2 years later, it hadn't failed but a squeak probably means it will seize shortly. You can't get to the bottom spindle mounting point from the outside. Happy flap greasing chaps
Cheers casbar, made my day.
Nope I think you are doing the right thing. If I thought I would have my bike in another 2 years, I would buy the stuff you recommended and have a go
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Nope I think you are doing the right thing. If I thought I would have my bike in another 2 years, I would buy the stuff you recommended and have a go
Feel better now, well mine is staying for a while hopefully so fingers crossed...........
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It is not really grease it is Nikel high temp stuff, and basically to hopefully stop it squealing if it rubs on metal, , no 100% guarantee but if you do not try.
Weird Bob
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I would have thought it would burn off pretty quick particularly after a few hard runs. Though at least it might run down into the spindle pivot point when it heats up.
If anyone wants to grease theirs and have a look again after a few hundred miles or so it would answer the question as to whether it was worth it or not.
If anyone wants to grease theirs and have a look again after a few hundred miles or so it would answer the question as to whether it was worth it or not.
It's likely to be better than doing nothing, as is using a HMP ptfe rich compound or similar. As you say, some is bound to make its way into the fibre washer housing (there IS still a bushing bearing of sorts between the washer and where the spindle is exposed within the pipe). Trick is to FIRSTLY spray a little acf50 into the spindle ends and turn the ignition on and off a few times to ensure that it works around the bushing bearing surfaces removing some of any corrosion or gumming up present before applying the grease.
Smear enough grease and try and work it around the spindle ends as hard as possible and some is bound to reach into the bushings on either side where the anti-seize properties of the grease can do its thing. Repeat as often as you feel you need to given, say, 500 mile initial inspection, and the elbow grease becomes part of the known regular cost of ownership. A tin of grease costing 30 Euros (I ordered some today) delivered is going to likely last the life of the bike so it all boils down to whether owners can be bothered. There's £1500-worth of motivating argument to being bothered.
To those arguing it all should be on BMW...perhaps but it is what it is. Did owners of Matchless G80's back in the day bemoan the awful worm drive oil pump which used to wear out almost as fast as the tyres? Nope, they replaced it as and when needed. It was a cost of ownership even if it was a design flaw. Did owners in later years of RSVs and RSVRs bemoan and hold dealers ransom over failing clutch slave cylinders and ignition coils? Nope, they upgraded them at their own cost as they were known design faults. Point is, all these were/are fantastic bikes in their day and nothing in this world is perfect....not even Honda car engines it seems...
....lets look at that shall we? Honda's latest super efficient high torque 1.5 direct injection petrol turbo has been the subject of countless complaints in the USA for a few years due to gasoline dilution of the sump and engine oil. Those same engines are now in the UK and fitted to all Honda's new line-up of civics and CRV cars. Honda's answer wasn't to issue a world-wide recall but to convince buyers that the cost of ownership is 6K miles engine oil changes to avoid engines going "bang" within their first few years of life. They've investigated the issue, known from the outset by their designers it seems and now spell out oil changes have to be this regular within owners' handbooks. It seems many people ignored this and their engines let go as a result. These were the same people who argued that it was a design flaw and that Honda should be taken to the cleaners. The truth, just like BMW's case, is that they designed the engines for fewer emissions to comply with USA and EU environmental legislation, and those that know their engines also understand that direct injection petrol engines, when cold, saturate the bore in gasoline which seeps past the rings and mixes with oil. All oils are designed with some degree of gasoline dilution in mind, but in the case of direct injection engines, miles between oil changes should be halved compared with conventional injection.
In BMW's case, noise regulations lead to a silly situation where they either strangle the crap out of the motor or add a simple valve. They chose to do the latter and good on them. The cost of ownership is therefore owners getting their hands dirty. If the greasing makes no difference at all, then I would take the view that the design is not fit for purpose, but if it proves to be the answer, this will become a non-issue and melt away for everyone except those with an aversion to spanners. You have to question whether responsible ownership means that owners shouldn't be expected to roll their sleeves up though...
Smear enough grease and try and work it around the spindle ends as hard as possible and some is bound to reach into the bushings on either side where the anti-seize properties of the grease can do its thing. Repeat as often as you feel you need to given, say, 500 mile initial inspection, and the elbow grease becomes part of the known regular cost of ownership. A tin of grease costing 30 Euros (I ordered some today) delivered is going to likely last the life of the bike so it all boils down to whether owners can be bothered. There's £1500-worth of motivating argument to being bothered.
To those arguing it all should be on BMW...perhaps but it is what it is. Did owners of Matchless G80's back in the day bemoan the awful worm drive oil pump which used to wear out almost as fast as the tyres? Nope, they replaced it as and when needed. It was a cost of ownership even if it was a design flaw. Did owners in later years of RSVs and RSVRs bemoan and hold dealers ransom over failing clutch slave cylinders and ignition coils? Nope, they upgraded them at their own cost as they were known design faults. Point is, all these were/are fantastic bikes in their day and nothing in this world is perfect....not even Honda car engines it seems...
....lets look at that shall we? Honda's latest super efficient high torque 1.5 direct injection petrol turbo has been the subject of countless complaints in the USA for a few years due to gasoline dilution of the sump and engine oil. Those same engines are now in the UK and fitted to all Honda's new line-up of civics and CRV cars. Honda's answer wasn't to issue a world-wide recall but to convince buyers that the cost of ownership is 6K miles engine oil changes to avoid engines going "bang" within their first few years of life. They've investigated the issue, known from the outset by their designers it seems and now spell out oil changes have to be this regular within owners' handbooks. It seems many people ignored this and their engines let go as a result. These were the same people who argued that it was a design flaw and that Honda should be taken to the cleaners. The truth, just like BMW's case, is that they designed the engines for fewer emissions to comply with USA and EU environmental legislation, and those that know their engines also understand that direct injection petrol engines, when cold, saturate the bore in gasoline which seeps past the rings and mixes with oil. All oils are designed with some degree of gasoline dilution in mind, but in the case of direct injection engines, miles between oil changes should be halved compared with conventional injection.
In BMW's case, noise regulations lead to a silly situation where they either strangle the crap out of the motor or add a simple valve. They chose to do the latter and good on them. The cost of ownership is therefore owners getting their hands dirty. If the greasing makes no difference at all, then I would take the view that the design is not fit for purpose, but if it proves to be the answer, this will become a non-issue and melt away for everyone except those with an aversion to spanners. You have to question whether responsible ownership means that owners shouldn't be expected to roll their sleeves up though...
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