eye opening - tyres on GSA - just WOW !

[Littledumptruck]

The OP is obviously a riding god and is clearly on the wrong bike. He should immediately return to an R1 or GSXR1000 on track day slicks and never darken our shores again.
OR
Try Conti TrailAttack3s .

 

[er-minio]

but the extra grip on road rubber causes the forks to flex very noticeably

Again, not taking the piss, but you are really imagining this.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

no one is saying I'm the first to fit road tyres - all I'm saying is the forks cope on trail rubber - but the extra grip on road rubber causes the forks to flex very noticeably - I had never had this issue or even an inkling it could behave like that when I had the original tourance tyres (and I'd done 2500 miles on them...), but as soon as road rubber went on you can feel the flexy forks just tickling along at walking pace and now 12 years on, two more 100% standard low mile (less than 10k ) bikes are doing it on road based rubber - and in the case of the BT023s I felt it within 3 meters and the A41's inside 25 meters of ever riding the bikes

as for traction control - oh yes that bug is alive and well - quite used to switching to S on my old GS every ride now, and its rare I forget - but yesterday I took the GSA out of a carpark in bracknell - hot day, dry tarmac, bike engine and tyres still hot and somehow I forgot to move to S before I set off - rode on to the dual carriageway, gave it about half throttle to around 4k rpm- stuttering mess of confusion, WTF, second gear stuttering mess, WTF is going on, this is utter it madness, it was fine when I parked it, changed to third stuttering got worse - holly cow whats gone wrong with the bike??? ... Oh I forgot S mode

in the dry, the old or the new bike simply cannot break traction in conditions where applying full throttle is advisable - they don't make enough power to do this - so why is it fitted with a computer that turns the engine off? unless totally incompetent modern tyres need about 180bhp before the rear tyre needs any form of nanny support

It’s a trail adventure styled bike
Just use trail biased tyres like Tourance or Trail attacks etc
Road biased tyres have no business on a trail adventure bike anyway

 

[TLSgazza]

It’s a trail adventure styled bike
Just use trail biased tyres like Tourance or Trail attacks etc
Road biased tyres have no business on a trail adventure bike anyway

Agreed. 130.000 miles on original tourances. Wet, dry, hot,cold. Fully loaded, never felt the need for other tyres. Never had them sliding around. Never noticed any handling problems. Fast motorway to single track dirt roads in the Alps.
The only other tyres I've put on are tkc80's and kenda big blocks for proper dirt riding. And even they were pretty good on the road.
And believed you me I can get a clip on with the best of them.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Agreed. 130.000 miles on original tourances. Wet, dry, hot,cold. Fully loaded, never felt the need for other tyres. Never had them sliding around. Never noticed any handling problems. Fast motorway to single track dirt roads in the Alps.
The only other tyres I've put on are tkc80's and kenda big blocks for proper dirt riding. And even they were pretty good on the road.
And believed you me I can get a clip on with the best of them.

All true
Done 130-200k+ on GS’s and always run Metzeler Enduro 4 & then Tourance, now on Continental Trail Attacks & all been fine

 

[Guru Gora]

Jesus that’s some seriously detailed observations.

In nearly all cases You will run out of talent way before the tyres run out of performance.

I use k60 scouts and love them.

The last time I did a corner adjustment at 120 mph I had an aircraft strapped to my arse.

 

[mikeyboy]

And there are no ball joints at the top yolk! Bushes that flex for And aft slightly following the telelever arc.
When riding along stick your fingers there to feel the movement

Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk

FYI,the components you are calling bushes are actually spherical joints.

 

[Udders]

FYI,the components you are calling bushes are actually spherical joints.

And mine are getting changed on Thursday.
And a new ball joint. And the top bearing.
I‘m bringing my MSR Windburner again.

 

[TLSgazza]

Jesus that’s some seriously detailed observations.

In nearly all cases You will run out of talent way before the tyres run out of performance.

I use k60 scouts and love them.

The last time I did a corner adjustment at 120 mph I had an aircraft strapped to my arse.

I've put some k60's on my old xl500. 320 Kms since Friday on them. They feel great with the mighty 32bhp on tap.

 

[Guru Gora]

I run them on 1200 1150 790 and 310. All the tyres I’ll ever need


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[KMD]

The only time I have ever experienced anything remotely like what the OP has described (in great detail) was many moons ago when the VFR800 came out and I bought a 700 mile example. I hadn’t even test ridden one, I bought it based solely on the rave reviews the motorcycle press were giving it. It was horrible and I wondered if I had made a terrible mistake. It was fitted with the factory supplied Dunlop D204’s.

After reading Ride magazine’s tyre test I changed them to Bridgestone BT020’s and suddenly the bike became a very different ride altogether. It left me wondering why Honda would put such poor tyres on such a good bike and instantly limit its potential.

But I’ve never had that experience on a Gs. I’ve had good and less good tyres but none that produce the kind of characteristics described. The tyre I keep coming back to are the Continental Road (Trail) Attacks. Tried Michelin PR’s but they didn’t give the same stable feeling in the dry, and the complete confidence in the wet that the Conti’s do.

 

[theoneandonly]

FFS .
i think what the OP needs is ....a Honda.

or...

get someone else to ride your bike , for a 2nd opinion .

whilst not the same bike , my 1150 rides as good as i'm prepared to spend , on tourances , old style , never used anything else on it for , over 110k miles. they do commuting, touring and trackdays. i have had the pegs down once ( without falling off )

 

[botus]

I was playing Sunday and yesterday with the ESA, lots more adjustment than others I've had - in many ways more sensible / subtle changes than I remember, but what it does to vehicle dynamics is really extreme - not sure how they manage it - never had any bike behave so differently through play mode adjustment. Even the KTM with 4 suspension modes was the same, an equal disaster in every mode - just different versions of horrible - the handling was the same basic nastiness

And other bikes I've had were the same basics bike regardless of mode setting. ESA I had on a K1300GT and I have on a K1600GTL - both don't mess with the steering / general handling, that never changed - yes the firmness altered but they were the same bikes....

K1300 - just went from 1) too soft, to 2) far too hard and to add insult to injury the damping (which is whats really changing), goes from nearly right, to terrible - but you had to select stiff and terrible or the engine wouldn't run

K1600 - I forget but I think this splits traction from suspension - but whatever its still a disaster. Suspension is 1) water bed with two drunks arguing, and is thus unusable 2) horrible and too soft or 3) too stiff and over damped - with traction is A) pathetic, B) waste of time to 3) dynamic - which really means, oh dear can I get S off the 13GT or my GS please... this thing is worse than a lawn mower on 3 years old jelly

But... and the point of the pre-amble the ESA on GSA TC does things in ways I don't really understand how, but I can see many would like - its still all wrong - but way better implementation than I expected.

On Sunday I was playing with single rider and going over the damping choices
Soft - was soft and seemed OK till you tried to corner - where the steering was wild understeer and dangerous
Normal - was a good name, it felt normal till you tried a corner - where the steering was a lot better but still wrong
Sport - masked most of the steering faults and was mostly not that stiff

I was shocked these changes could have these quite dramatic effects... then she was supposed to come out on the back, but didn't, but I had pushed it to fully loaded and it jacked itself up loads... then I remembered to add a bit more air and ended at 2.2 bar in the front 3.0 in the back -

So Monday I took it out in Sport and left it on two passengers and luggage mode - and the bike was by far the best its been - it wasn't really stiff, the steering was almost normal and the bike was "OK" to ride. But with our awful roads and the back so far up in the air - I got soft and decided to give the drive shaft UJs an easy life - so took it down to single rider with luggage mode and its just ruined it - then I tried Normal damping and it was all just heading in the wrong direction with the steering going all horrible

Scarily what I've realised is this engine needs more then double the gear changes of a Hex head bike - it seems to lack the grunt and flexibility around 3K of the older engine - reinforced when I swapped back to my old GS and it got me thinking about the bike Santa-2512 just got - have a made a terrible mistake and got the wrong adventure ?

 

[Santa-2512]

I lived with my LC for 38 month's, its a capable bike you sit on

The hexhead you sit in

 

[er-minio]

3 bar on the rear tyre?
And you complain about the traction control telltale light flashing?

Even the KTM with 4 suspension modes was the same, an equal disaster in every mode - just different versions of horrible - the handling was the same basic nastiness

And you're sure you're not a smidge biased? Or all the bikes you ride are an utter engineering failure?

I don't consider myself that experienced or fast by any standard, so I would normally address any issue I have on the bike starting with:
1. Me. Am I inducing this behaviour through a riding fault of my own?
2. Are the shocks/tyres in tip top conditions? Following that setup?
3. Surface issues/mechanical (something broken) problems.

Seriously uncommon for modern bikes to have blaring engineering problems like what you describe. Unless we want an excuse to ignore errors that are due to ourselves mostly.

I've ridden my hexhead on track a few times for fun and, again, I'm not fast but not exactly bimbling along either, never noticed any of the issues you mention (flex) neither did people that ride significantly faster than me (and have extensive experience) on similar hexhead, non adventure, on sport road tyres.
Main issues I have had was, possibly, stability over hard-ish braking. Overheated tyres and (later) brakes sent the bike around like a boat, but that would have been expected.

I experienced some lack in faith on the front end the last time I had the GS at Brands. I was more than my usual over-caution (I have a safe zone ) when cornering. Later on, while traveling to Italy this became a very unstable bike on rapid direction changes at speed. I still remember a quick left/right across a sudden dip, coming down the Alps, that almost required a change of pants. Shocks were fine and relatively recently serviced (I have Ohlins TTX on that bike). When in Rome had it checked and turned out to be the ball joint on the telelever, worn out and out of shape, so the front suspension movement in compression and extension wouldn't be smooth. It would compress, reach a point where resisting compression, and then give up all at once.

As you are talking about older hexhead/twincam hexhead bikes, I'd humbly suggest to give it a look maybe as well.

Hope you find the solution!

 

[autogs]

FYI,the components you are calling bushes are actually spherical joints.

Maybe,but there not ball joints?

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[Slipperyeel]

Maybe,but there not ball joints?

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Technically they called spherical bearings, which always struck me as a slightly confusing name!?@#€!
But they're not a 'ball joint' in the same vein as the front telelever ball joint is...

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

[botus]

one holds the stanchions still, which in itself will allow the forks to telescope reliably, rather than stick and jam, let alone connects the handlebars to the wheel spindle - whereas the other allows full flex

or

 

[Slipperyeel]

one holds the stanchions still, which in itself will allow the forks to telescope reliably, rather than stick and jam, let alone connects the handlebars to the wheel spindle - whereas the other allows full flex

or

Because of the telelever set up, the top of the stanchion has to rotate. It's not as if BMW just made a poor choice of locating the top of the stanchions - which is how your post reads...

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[botus]

Because of the telelever set up, the top of the stanchion has to rotate. It's not as if BMW just made a poor choice of locating the top of the stanchions - which is how your post reads...

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I covered that point the other day - yes, its specifically because the top of the stanchions must move through an arc, that the solutions implemented at production is so lacking in fundamental engineering integrity, and thus the flexy fork comment I stated is a real issue

rather then people having a pop at me (when it should be directed and BMW) - it would be simpler AND beneficial for you all to get a couple of bike exhaust can stainless clamps, and a bit of steel and join the tops of your tubes just below the rubber covers at the top of your stanchions - you should all be able to feel the improvement riding round town from walking pace