KevinC
Registered user
Thought I'd share this with you all.
Let me say first off - I'm not a 1200 basher (obviously!!) in fact really like most everything - BUT - there I have to concur with the feelings of some that the testing and quality control are, in some instances, woeful.
I noticed an oil leak from the (forgive my description) joint between the final drive and the hub, underneath. I took this to Roy Gardner and asked his advice - Roy, a man I trust with my bike, thought that it was either that seal or the one at the gearbox end. And as such would strip the back end first and see - as it transpired the situation was a whole lot worse. In actual fact it appears that the cable tie securing the top gaiter was not sufficiently tightened at the factory - this has allowed water to enter inside the swinging arm and resulted in significant corrosion. Also the UJ was showing, as you might imagine!, damage meaning that it was somewhat stiff and notchy. I took several photographs and sent them off to BMW for them to assess the problem. Roy is a highly competent mechanic - one of, if not the best, I have ever met. His opinion was that the source of the issue was the badly fitted cable tie (cant believe this is done with a cable tie!). I have no reason not to accept his professional viewpoint.
BMWs response was, as you'd imagine less than helpful, here is my initial email.......
Dear sir - I am the owner of a BMW R1200GS (MV05 ZPM) purchased from Williams BMW in Manchester.
It is now 2.5 years old, I previously owned an 1150GS prior to purchasing this bike.
Since the warranty ran out I have had to replace the ZFE control unit - why this failed is a mystery and the over complication for running lighting and instrumentation amazes me. However, this is not the reason for the email.
I noticed a slight oil leak from the underside of the swinging arm - close to the joint with the rear hub. This has now been stripped - and in fact the leak appears is at the gearbox end of the drive shaft - so obviously the whole assembly had to be dismantled. What then materialised was nothing short of horrific - I have enclosed the pictures for you to see. The gaiter at the gearbox end of the swinging arm was not sealed correctly with the cable tie used for that purpose as the cable tie itself was not tightened sufficiently and hence has over time allowed the ingress of water to the assembly - resulting in severe corrosion to the drive shaft which has apparently been running in a bed of water!! This together with the oil leak from the gear box output shaft has resulted in dried water/oil deposits throughout the inside of the swinging arm. As a consequence the UJ at the bottom end of the drive shaft has become stiffened and is clearly in need of replacement.
This appears to be a very expensive mistake - I'm not sure if this final assembly of the top gaiter is completed at the factory or the dealership. In any respect there is a potential major flaw in your processes and more importantly a possible major issue throughout all the GS motorcycles you have sold.
Firstly, I would like to understand the reason for the mistake - is this a systemic problem or a one-off. Secondly, I would like to understand what action you would propose taking to redress the problem. I know many other 1200 riders through my membership of the UKGSer forum - I have yet to raise this on the site as I thought I would give you the opportunity to respond initially.
I would be grateful for, and expect a provisional response to my email before the end of the week.
and the response......
Dear Mr Chappell
Thank you for your email dated December 12, 2007. I am sorry to learn of the problems that you have experienced with your BMW R1200GS. I appreciate that this situation must be extremely frustrating and I would like to apologise for any upset and inconvenience this matter has caused.
BMW take great pride in the build quality of our motorcycles and it is always disappointing to learn of a customers dissatisfaction. In response to your request for information as to other occurrences of this fault, I have checked our database. We monitor failure reports and part orders to highlight any problems that may occur more frequently than others and they may require the attention of BMW Germany. After checking our database, I can confirm that the problem you are experiencing is not an inherent fault with our vehicle range.
Regarding the best way to progress this matter, I can advise that our network of BMW Approved Dealerships are our technical point of reference with regard to our customers’ vehicles. We rely on feedback from them when assessing each individual case and they are trained by BMW to diagnose and rectify any faults that a customer may experience with their vehicle.
In order to progress your enquiry, I would recommend that you contact your local BMW Motorrad Approved Dealership and arrange for your vehicle to be inspected. If, following this inspection, the Service Department find a manufacturing fault to be the cause of the problem, they have the means to contact BMW UK directly for assistance.
I apologise that you have had cause to write to us under these circumstances and trust that this information is of assistance to your enquiry. I have noted your comments and concerns under case number 132101, for future reference should it be required. If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Yours sincerely
BMW Group UK
Of course I was unhappy with that!! t say the least so off with another email that they last and I had to resend.........
Dear sir,
I am extremely disappointed at your response. It is obvious from the pictures I have sent you already that the bike is in pieces. I cannot take it to a BMW approved dealership as it is, nor am I prepared to reassemble the bike with existing parts as the drive shaft is frankly not in a serviceable condition - as is apparent from the pictures I sent you.
The work on my bike is being completed by a former chief mechanic at an approved dealership who has been on many BMW courses and has innumerable hours experience working on BMW motorcycles. He is convinced that the error was the lack of appropriate fixing of the top gaiter to the swinging arm. It is very clear that the corrosion is long standing - I am happy to send you the original drive shaft for you to test this.
I'm glad you appear to be disappointed - as I am. However, it is not enough to say you are disappointed, this is a very serious issue - without the oil leak (a sad statement indeed!) I might have suffered a serious accident when eventually the drive shaft went, it would not have failed whilst sitting in my garage, clearly it would have failed in operation. I do not even want to consider the possible consequences of such an occurrence.
The very least you could offer, is to refund the cost of parts and labour in resolving this problem, caused not by myself but by the error in your own manufacturing process.
I await your reply.
regards, Kevin Chappell
Needless to say - got a reply with no positive news.......
Dear Mr Chappell
Thank you for resending your email dated December 17, 2007. I am sorry that you are disappointed with our previous response advising how to receive assistance from BMW Motorrad.
I understand that your BMW R1200GS Motorbike is in pieces and that you are not prepared to have the bike reassembled or transported to a Motorrad Approved Dealership. However, BMW Motorrad do not accept diagnostics from non approved service centres or technicians, regardless of where they were trained or their previous employment. We also do not accept photographs or parts removed from a vehicle when assessing a claim for goodwill.
To enable BMW Motorrad to consider a request for financial assistance, vehicles must be inspected and investigations carried out by a Motorrad Approved Dealership. The goodwill request must be submitted using our internal claims requests process and be submitted by the Approved Dealership who carried out the inspections. We do not accept claims from vehicle owners or from non approved repair agents.
Regarding your comments over the potential safety issues that could have resulted from a failure, we are unable to comment on this situation since it did not occur.
I appreciate that you will remain unhappy with this information however, as you have not given us the opportunity to investigate this failure, we will not consider your request for goodwill or admit that a manufacturing related issue was the cause.
Yours sincerely
BMW Motorrad UK
So I am at a loss to know what to do next - then bike is happily back on the road and all appears well. I, of course, had to replace the seals (these things can happen) as well as the final drive (these things shouldn't!!). Here are some pics for you. Seems like I'm out of pocket and feeling a little pi55ed off to say the least.
As I said at the start its a great bike - but the testing and quality control appear less than they should be. This all on the back of a ZFE (lighting and instrumentation computer control panel) recently leave me feeling a tad sorry for myself.
Sorry for the long post (must be as much as Ive ever written on here ever!!)
At the very least check the cable tie at the top gaiter and ensure it is tight enough to stop water entering!
Let me say first off - I'm not a 1200 basher (obviously!!) in fact really like most everything - BUT - there I have to concur with the feelings of some that the testing and quality control are, in some instances, woeful.
I noticed an oil leak from the (forgive my description) joint between the final drive and the hub, underneath. I took this to Roy Gardner and asked his advice - Roy, a man I trust with my bike, thought that it was either that seal or the one at the gearbox end. And as such would strip the back end first and see - as it transpired the situation was a whole lot worse. In actual fact it appears that the cable tie securing the top gaiter was not sufficiently tightened at the factory - this has allowed water to enter inside the swinging arm and resulted in significant corrosion. Also the UJ was showing, as you might imagine!, damage meaning that it was somewhat stiff and notchy. I took several photographs and sent them off to BMW for them to assess the problem. Roy is a highly competent mechanic - one of, if not the best, I have ever met. His opinion was that the source of the issue was the badly fitted cable tie (cant believe this is done with a cable tie!). I have no reason not to accept his professional viewpoint.
BMWs response was, as you'd imagine less than helpful, here is my initial email.......
Dear sir - I am the owner of a BMW R1200GS (MV05 ZPM) purchased from Williams BMW in Manchester.
It is now 2.5 years old, I previously owned an 1150GS prior to purchasing this bike.
Since the warranty ran out I have had to replace the ZFE control unit - why this failed is a mystery and the over complication for running lighting and instrumentation amazes me. However, this is not the reason for the email.
I noticed a slight oil leak from the underside of the swinging arm - close to the joint with the rear hub. This has now been stripped - and in fact the leak appears is at the gearbox end of the drive shaft - so obviously the whole assembly had to be dismantled. What then materialised was nothing short of horrific - I have enclosed the pictures for you to see. The gaiter at the gearbox end of the swinging arm was not sealed correctly with the cable tie used for that purpose as the cable tie itself was not tightened sufficiently and hence has over time allowed the ingress of water to the assembly - resulting in severe corrosion to the drive shaft which has apparently been running in a bed of water!! This together with the oil leak from the gear box output shaft has resulted in dried water/oil deposits throughout the inside of the swinging arm. As a consequence the UJ at the bottom end of the drive shaft has become stiffened and is clearly in need of replacement.
This appears to be a very expensive mistake - I'm not sure if this final assembly of the top gaiter is completed at the factory or the dealership. In any respect there is a potential major flaw in your processes and more importantly a possible major issue throughout all the GS motorcycles you have sold.
Firstly, I would like to understand the reason for the mistake - is this a systemic problem or a one-off. Secondly, I would like to understand what action you would propose taking to redress the problem. I know many other 1200 riders through my membership of the UKGSer forum - I have yet to raise this on the site as I thought I would give you the opportunity to respond initially.
I would be grateful for, and expect a provisional response to my email before the end of the week.
and the response......
Dear Mr Chappell
Thank you for your email dated December 12, 2007. I am sorry to learn of the problems that you have experienced with your BMW R1200GS. I appreciate that this situation must be extremely frustrating and I would like to apologise for any upset and inconvenience this matter has caused.
BMW take great pride in the build quality of our motorcycles and it is always disappointing to learn of a customers dissatisfaction. In response to your request for information as to other occurrences of this fault, I have checked our database. We monitor failure reports and part orders to highlight any problems that may occur more frequently than others and they may require the attention of BMW Germany. After checking our database, I can confirm that the problem you are experiencing is not an inherent fault with our vehicle range.
Regarding the best way to progress this matter, I can advise that our network of BMW Approved Dealerships are our technical point of reference with regard to our customers’ vehicles. We rely on feedback from them when assessing each individual case and they are trained by BMW to diagnose and rectify any faults that a customer may experience with their vehicle.
In order to progress your enquiry, I would recommend that you contact your local BMW Motorrad Approved Dealership and arrange for your vehicle to be inspected. If, following this inspection, the Service Department find a manufacturing fault to be the cause of the problem, they have the means to contact BMW UK directly for assistance.
I apologise that you have had cause to write to us under these circumstances and trust that this information is of assistance to your enquiry. I have noted your comments and concerns under case number 132101, for future reference should it be required. If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Yours sincerely
BMW Group UK
Of course I was unhappy with that!! t say the least so off with another email that they last and I had to resend.........
Dear sir,
I am extremely disappointed at your response. It is obvious from the pictures I have sent you already that the bike is in pieces. I cannot take it to a BMW approved dealership as it is, nor am I prepared to reassemble the bike with existing parts as the drive shaft is frankly not in a serviceable condition - as is apparent from the pictures I sent you.
The work on my bike is being completed by a former chief mechanic at an approved dealership who has been on many BMW courses and has innumerable hours experience working on BMW motorcycles. He is convinced that the error was the lack of appropriate fixing of the top gaiter to the swinging arm. It is very clear that the corrosion is long standing - I am happy to send you the original drive shaft for you to test this.
I'm glad you appear to be disappointed - as I am. However, it is not enough to say you are disappointed, this is a very serious issue - without the oil leak (a sad statement indeed!) I might have suffered a serious accident when eventually the drive shaft went, it would not have failed whilst sitting in my garage, clearly it would have failed in operation. I do not even want to consider the possible consequences of such an occurrence.
The very least you could offer, is to refund the cost of parts and labour in resolving this problem, caused not by myself but by the error in your own manufacturing process.
I await your reply.
regards, Kevin Chappell
Needless to say - got a reply with no positive news.......
Dear Mr Chappell
Thank you for resending your email dated December 17, 2007. I am sorry that you are disappointed with our previous response advising how to receive assistance from BMW Motorrad.
I understand that your BMW R1200GS Motorbike is in pieces and that you are not prepared to have the bike reassembled or transported to a Motorrad Approved Dealership. However, BMW Motorrad do not accept diagnostics from non approved service centres or technicians, regardless of where they were trained or their previous employment. We also do not accept photographs or parts removed from a vehicle when assessing a claim for goodwill.
To enable BMW Motorrad to consider a request for financial assistance, vehicles must be inspected and investigations carried out by a Motorrad Approved Dealership. The goodwill request must be submitted using our internal claims requests process and be submitted by the Approved Dealership who carried out the inspections. We do not accept claims from vehicle owners or from non approved repair agents.
Regarding your comments over the potential safety issues that could have resulted from a failure, we are unable to comment on this situation since it did not occur.
I appreciate that you will remain unhappy with this information however, as you have not given us the opportunity to investigate this failure, we will not consider your request for goodwill or admit that a manufacturing related issue was the cause.
Yours sincerely
BMW Motorrad UK
So I am at a loss to know what to do next - then bike is happily back on the road and all appears well. I, of course, had to replace the seals (these things can happen) as well as the final drive (these things shouldn't!!). Here are some pics for you. Seems like I'm out of pocket and feeling a little pi55ed off to say the least.
As I said at the start its a great bike - but the testing and quality control appear less than they should be. This all on the back of a ZFE (lighting and instrumentation computer control panel) recently leave me feeling a tad sorry for myself.
Sorry for the long post (must be as much as Ive ever written on here ever!!)
At the very least check the cable tie at the top gaiter and ensure it is tight enough to stop water entering!
If your Ford car is broken and you want to persue a warranty claim then you dont take it for example to a Nissan garage.
