JDH
Registered user
A very objective and detailed response if I might say so 
JDH
JDH
Garmin v tom tom
- Thread starter hovis
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hovis
Registered user
tom tom v garmin
Thanks for that most appreciated
Hovis
Thanks for that most appreciated
Hovis
andyclift
Registered user
I don't agree that it is subjective. I accept that it is not a comparison under test conditions but BOTH units have been used in cars and motorcycles for simple trips in the UK, navigating London traffic and an eight country European tour. I believe that my long term experience using systems from both manufacturers is likely to be far less subjective to the average motorcycling magazine test consiting of a unit being tested for a few days by a guy who needs the advertising revenue rom the supplier.
Both units were originally fitted to a 1200 GS (the Tomtom is today on a CS). Both are used for safety camera warnings and both have traffic congestion warning facilities, the Garmin via an add-on and the Tomtom via subscription.
Both were purchased at around the same time and both have been subjected to the manufacturers after sales service. Both have been used with the manufacturers PC software.
I am not anti-Tomtom, I simply stated MY experience and that is, as clearly stated in my post, that people who need simple way to get from A to B will be very happy with the Tomtom. However, for more complex routing the Garmin offers a vastly better way of setting up a route, either directly on the unit or on a PC. It is also my experience, backed up by many posts, that Garmin offer a better after sales service although I also clearly stated that once Tomtom's senior management discovered that I was having a problem the result was extremely satisfactory. This is not subjective. It is a clear staement of fact.
I think it is a valid comparision for many that want to go into Europe that Garmin's idea of European mapping is more comprehensive than Tomtom's. Try going to Poland with a Tomtom, its a big empty space. Garmin have 100% street level coverage. This is not anti-Tomtom, it is a fact.
Both units were originally fitted to a 1200 GS (the Tomtom is today on a CS). Both are used for safety camera warnings and both have traffic congestion warning facilities, the Garmin via an add-on and the Tomtom via subscription.
Both were purchased at around the same time and both have been subjected to the manufacturers after sales service. Both have been used with the manufacturers PC software.
I am not anti-Tomtom, I simply stated MY experience and that is, as clearly stated in my post, that people who need simple way to get from A to B will be very happy with the Tomtom. However, for more complex routing the Garmin offers a vastly better way of setting up a route, either directly on the unit or on a PC. It is also my experience, backed up by many posts, that Garmin offer a better after sales service although I also clearly stated that once Tomtom's senior management discovered that I was having a problem the result was extremely satisfactory. This is not subjective. It is a clear staement of fact.
I think it is a valid comparision for many that want to go into Europe that Garmin's idea of European mapping is more comprehensive than Tomtom's. Try going to Poland with a Tomtom, its a big empty space. Garmin have 100% street level coverage. This is not anti-Tomtom, it is a fact.
Cabopino
Guest
It's not the lack of test conditions, it's that you post is littered with subjective personal opinion, such as "This is of limited use ", "Its pointless to spend time on the Rider 1 problems", "For more complex tasks the Garmin is superior", "we found this quite useful", "their service was so bad", "Tomtom software is easier to use but I found it became frustrating after a while", to name just a few. And how about "The biggest failure though, in my opinion..."
In addition, you use the expression "my experience" in place of "my opinion" to represent your opinion as fact: "my experience is that Garmin is head and shoulders above Tomtom", "My experience is that I would hate to have a fault on a Rider...". Given that your experience happened in the past, to transpose it into the present or conditional tenses is conjecture, and therefore not fact, but opinion.
I note you qualify your knowledge of the Zumo, but not your knowledge of the Tomtom. Your explanation of the limits of Tomtom's usage is based upon your own limited knowledge, not on reality. You do not mention that Tomtom has been producing maps of Central Europe for some time. To say that Tomtom does not cover Poland, for example, is incorrect. The fact that this mapping costs extra can easily be contrasted to the price difference of the two units to provide an objective view of their respective map coverage in relation to cost. But you chose not to.
You wrote in detail of the advantages Garmin's Mapsource functionality compared to Tomtom Home while failing to mention that there are many free-to-download utilities which enable a Tomtom to be used in almost every way that a Garmin can, not to mention the facilty to convert routes and POI's between formats, interaction with Microsoft Autoroute, Mappoint, Google Earth, and to provide real time tracking. Sure, you could say that you were confining your assessment solely to functionality provided by the individual companies, not third parties, but that in itself would be a personal, subjective decision.
Did you mention customisable menus, does the Garmin offer this, what about the Tomtom? I could go on.
Don't get me wrong, I am not denying your experiences, rejecting your opinions or your right to express them, I just expressed the view that your post was not objective analysis but personal opinion, that's all.
Perhaps the effect is compounded by your knowledge of the Tomtom Rider's capabilities appearing to be inconsistent with the authority with which you purport to speak.
CP
In addition, you use the expression "my experience" in place of "my opinion" to represent your opinion as fact: "my experience is that Garmin is head and shoulders above Tomtom", "My experience is that I would hate to have a fault on a Rider...". Given that your experience happened in the past, to transpose it into the present or conditional tenses is conjecture, and therefore not fact, but opinion.
I note you qualify your knowledge of the Zumo, but not your knowledge of the Tomtom. Your explanation of the limits of Tomtom's usage is based upon your own limited knowledge, not on reality. You do not mention that Tomtom has been producing maps of Central Europe for some time. To say that Tomtom does not cover Poland, for example, is incorrect. The fact that this mapping costs extra can easily be contrasted to the price difference of the two units to provide an objective view of their respective map coverage in relation to cost. But you chose not to.
You wrote in detail of the advantages Garmin's Mapsource functionality compared to Tomtom Home while failing to mention that there are many free-to-download utilities which enable a Tomtom to be used in almost every way that a Garmin can, not to mention the facilty to convert routes and POI's between formats, interaction with Microsoft Autoroute, Mappoint, Google Earth, and to provide real time tracking. Sure, you could say that you were confining your assessment solely to functionality provided by the individual companies, not third parties, but that in itself would be a personal, subjective decision.
Did you mention customisable menus, does the Garmin offer this, what about the Tomtom? I could go on.
Don't get me wrong, I am not denying your experiences, rejecting your opinions or your right to express them, I just expressed the view that your post was not objective analysis but personal opinion, that's all.
Perhaps the effect is compounded by your knowledge of the Tomtom Rider's capabilities appearing to be inconsistent with the authority with which you purport to speak.
CP
its all poo
Registered user
Fellas please take a deep breath !
andyclift
Registered user
OK so taking a deep breath.
It is clear that whether one is discussing a satnav,a bike, or anything else that some `features' which are peripheral to the main purpose will be of limited use. Tracking, for example is a facility which some may find useful but other will not use it. As its only purpose is to keep alog of where you have been, its use is clearly limited.
A partial quote as it is noted that these problems are well documented. It is also a fact that as one can no longer buy a Rider 1 as it has been replaced with the Rider 2 it is pointless to document the problems which existed.
Where is the problem with noting something that we found useful but others may not.
OK so `so bad' is a subjective opinion. I did not want to dwell on detail as, eventually Tomtom came good. A little more detail. From sending the unit back it was four weeks before I was told anything despite two email enquiries. After advising that they would be sending a replacement shortly it took 11 days to advise delivery and another 5 to deliver.It then took another two weeks, three emails (with no response) two phone calls (after an hour of holding the line) to get the code needed to load the maps. Ithink `so bad' is a rather mild criticism.
Any valid comment that anyone makes about anything can only be based on personal experience whether this is based on research, use or anything else.It is also rather obvious that any comment on anything must be based on the past as its rather tough to comment on the future. If either Tomtom or Garmin improve on anything in their systems, again, a report on that is based on the past.
Unlike a number of posts found on various forums I have avoided third party opinions and comments such as `my mate had one and it was no good'. As an example, I clearly state that from MY EXPERIENCE I would hate to have a Rider fail shortly before a major trip but but from MY EXPERIENCE of Garmin I would have more confidence. This is a factual comment, not subjective.
My post clearly states that I am comparing experience of Garmin and Tomtom based on wide experience of the 2720 and Rider. I rightly note where I am unsure whether my experience appliesto the Zumo but have no reason to qualify comments on the Rider.To say my comments are not based on reality is clearly rubbish as I have stated that I have used it in a very wide range of situations over a long period.
I do not mention that Tomtom have maps of Central Europe, neither do I mention that they have maps of the USA, Australiaand many other places. Neither did I mention that Garmin have a large range of maps. What is more important is the valid point that in the UK both Rider and Garmins are offered with mapping of Europe and it is a factual comment that Garmin maps cover a larger area. This is a valid point to make to potential purchasers as it affects a like to like comparision on the cost of the units and in that context it is correct. If you read my post again, nowhere do I say that Tomtom do not cover Poland (I have their Poland map). I DO say that Tomtom's Western Europe maps don't and they are the maps you get when you buy it.
Yes I failed to mention third party software but I thought we were comparing Tomtom with Garmin. Yes there is a lot of third party software that one get use with the Tomtom, as there is with the Garmin. You mention Google Earth, Garmin Mapsource directly interacts with it. The Garmin Comunicator browser plug-in when used with takeitwithme,com allows Garmin units to download routes and waypoints defined in Google My Maps without any conversion. It is, just about, possible touse a Tomtom with Autoroute but its messy, requires knowledge and, of course, one must buy Auroroute first. I have done it to get Europe routes into the Rider but its a workaround to the dedicated facility of Mapsource.
Maybe you are one up on me here as the only `customisation' I can find in Tomtom menus is a facility to go from `simple' to `advanced'. The former simply blanks out some options. Of course Tomtom does have the frustrating function of blanking out most options once the unit is fitted to a motorcycle. Also available on Garmin but one can switch it off.
Then there are many other things I didn't mention to try to avoid making the post overly long. For example the annoying trait of the Tomtom in not allowing a destination to be entered if satellite fix is lost without first going into an advanced planning option and setting a start point - which one cannot do when its fitted to a bike as the advanced option is not available. The Garmin letsd you enter a destination and just sorts itself out once it gets a fix.
Neither did I mention that the Tomtom is better on retaining a satellite fix when indoors or a number of other things that ae unlikely to affect real world use.
Now here is a comment not backed up by fact. As already noted, the Rider has been used extensively in a wide range of situations as has my Ipaq 5935 which uses Tomtom software. Relatively unusually I can offer an EXACT comparison of the two units in exactly the same circumstances as my wife and I tour on our own bikes with the Rider on one and the Garmin on the other.
Finally it may be of interest to know how we finished up with both and did not standardise. The Rider was purchased first but the bracket failed shortly before a trip. I contacted Tomtom via their customer service website, got a useless reply three days later, contacted them again and the next day got a reply requesting that I send it back and repair or replacement would take three weeks. As I did not have three weeks available I decided to buy a BMW Navigator II. My very honest BMW dealer told me it was overpriced and recommended I purchase a 2720 which savd me £400 and was a better system. To avoid the long wait for service, on my return, I purchased a new bracket but that failed as well so the whole lot was eventually returned to Tomtom and replaced. My may also be of interest to note that my background with satnavs goes back to using a Garmin GPS 12 for backpacking (I am a British Mountaineering Council Mountain Leader) and for road use, a Psion with Tomtom software (under their old name) using the GPS 12 plumbed in to provide the GPS fix. Not great due to the old US government random accuracy policy, thankfully now a thing of the past, but useful on occasions.
It is clear that whether one is discussing a satnav,a bike, or anything else that some `features' which are peripheral to the main purpose will be of limited use. Tracking, for example is a facility which some may find useful but other will not use it. As its only purpose is to keep alog of where you have been, its use is clearly limited.
A partial quote as it is noted that these problems are well documented. It is also a fact that as one can no longer buy a Rider 1 as it has been replaced with the Rider 2 it is pointless to document the problems which existed.
Where is the problem with noting something that we found useful but others may not.
OK so `so bad' is a subjective opinion. I did not want to dwell on detail as, eventually Tomtom came good. A little more detail. From sending the unit back it was four weeks before I was told anything despite two email enquiries. After advising that they would be sending a replacement shortly it took 11 days to advise delivery and another 5 to deliver.It then took another two weeks, three emails (with no response) two phone calls (after an hour of holding the line) to get the code needed to load the maps. Ithink `so bad' is a rather mild criticism.
Any valid comment that anyone makes about anything can only be based on personal experience whether this is based on research, use or anything else.It is also rather obvious that any comment on anything must be based on the past as its rather tough to comment on the future. If either Tomtom or Garmin improve on anything in their systems, again, a report on that is based on the past.
Unlike a number of posts found on various forums I have avoided third party opinions and comments such as `my mate had one and it was no good'. As an example, I clearly state that from MY EXPERIENCE I would hate to have a Rider fail shortly before a major trip but but from MY EXPERIENCE of Garmin I would have more confidence. This is a factual comment, not subjective.
My post clearly states that I am comparing experience of Garmin and Tomtom based on wide experience of the 2720 and Rider. I rightly note where I am unsure whether my experience appliesto the Zumo but have no reason to qualify comments on the Rider.To say my comments are not based on reality is clearly rubbish as I have stated that I have used it in a very wide range of situations over a long period.
I do not mention that Tomtom have maps of Central Europe, neither do I mention that they have maps of the USA, Australiaand many other places. Neither did I mention that Garmin have a large range of maps. What is more important is the valid point that in the UK both Rider and Garmins are offered with mapping of Europe and it is a factual comment that Garmin maps cover a larger area. This is a valid point to make to potential purchasers as it affects a like to like comparision on the cost of the units and in that context it is correct. If you read my post again, nowhere do I say that Tomtom do not cover Poland (I have their Poland map). I DO say that Tomtom's Western Europe maps don't and they are the maps you get when you buy it.
Yes I failed to mention third party software but I thought we were comparing Tomtom with Garmin. Yes there is a lot of third party software that one get use with the Tomtom, as there is with the Garmin. You mention Google Earth, Garmin Mapsource directly interacts with it. The Garmin Comunicator browser plug-in when used with takeitwithme,com allows Garmin units to download routes and waypoints defined in Google My Maps without any conversion. It is, just about, possible touse a Tomtom with Autoroute but its messy, requires knowledge and, of course, one must buy Auroroute first. I have done it to get Europe routes into the Rider but its a workaround to the dedicated facility of Mapsource.
Maybe you are one up on me here as the only `customisation' I can find in Tomtom menus is a facility to go from `simple' to `advanced'. The former simply blanks out some options. Of course Tomtom does have the frustrating function of blanking out most options once the unit is fitted to a motorcycle. Also available on Garmin but one can switch it off.
Then there are many other things I didn't mention to try to avoid making the post overly long. For example the annoying trait of the Tomtom in not allowing a destination to be entered if satellite fix is lost without first going into an advanced planning option and setting a start point - which one cannot do when its fitted to a bike as the advanced option is not available. The Garmin letsd you enter a destination and just sorts itself out once it gets a fix.
Neither did I mention that the Tomtom is better on retaining a satellite fix when indoors or a number of other things that ae unlikely to affect real world use.
Now here is a comment not backed up by fact. As already noted, the Rider has been used extensively in a wide range of situations as has my Ipaq 5935 which uses Tomtom software. Relatively unusually I can offer an EXACT comparison of the two units in exactly the same circumstances as my wife and I tour on our own bikes with the Rider on one and the Garmin on the other.
Finally it may be of interest to know how we finished up with both and did not standardise. The Rider was purchased first but the bracket failed shortly before a trip. I contacted Tomtom via their customer service website, got a useless reply three days later, contacted them again and the next day got a reply requesting that I send it back and repair or replacement would take three weeks. As I did not have three weeks available I decided to buy a BMW Navigator II. My very honest BMW dealer told me it was overpriced and recommended I purchase a 2720 which savd me £400 and was a better system. To avoid the long wait for service, on my return, I purchased a new bracket but that failed as well so the whole lot was eventually returned to Tomtom and replaced. My may also be of interest to note that my background with satnavs goes back to using a Garmin GPS 12 for backpacking (I am a British Mountaineering Council Mountain Leader) and for road use, a Psion with Tomtom software (under their old name) using the GPS 12 plumbed in to provide the GPS fix. Not great due to the old US government random accuracy policy, thankfully now a thing of the past, but useful on occasions.
scots_jon
Registered user
Getting back to the topic...
The tom tom is cheaper and runs a Linux based OS so you can download some pretty neat third party applications for it. These go a long way to make up for the deficiencies in the original software.
The Garmin is a much better quality pieces of kit and as everyone says has better support for routing on the PC.
Tomtoms customer support is truely apalling. Garmins is first class, in my experience you can always get hold of a helpful chap at Garmin UK who will solve your probelms. I've had several pieces of Garmin kit and found them all to be excellent.
One factor for some people is that TomTom maps are much easier to steal then Garmin ones. All the Tomtom maps are available to download of the web. You can't do this with the Garmin. I don't condone this.
Cheers,
Jon
The tom tom is cheaper and runs a Linux based OS so you can download some pretty neat third party applications for it. These go a long way to make up for the deficiencies in the original software.
The Garmin is a much better quality pieces of kit and as everyone says has better support for routing on the PC.
Tomtoms customer support is truely apalling. Garmins is first class, in my experience you can always get hold of a helpful chap at Garmin UK who will solve your probelms. I've had several pieces of Garmin kit and found them all to be excellent.
One factor for some people is that TomTom maps are much easier to steal then Garmin ones. All the Tomtom maps are available to download of the web. You can't do this with the Garmin. I don't condone this.
Cheers,
Jon
Cabopino
Guest
Sorry AndyClift, I have not read your last post, I'm bored of you ranting everytime anyone disagrees with you. I read your original post, disagreed with the "objective" description and said so.
After you went into defensive mode I took the trouble to explain my reasons and that's it. I was not arguing for arguing's sake, just explaining my reasons. Everyone else can read the posts, and also perhaps your past ones on the subject and make their own mind up.
Blackal, to suggest that people do not read my posts is an insult to their intelligence. Are they not at least as capable as you of reading and making up their own minds? Or would you prefer that not seek to understand alternative viewpoints and just repeat the mantra as you have done.
Oh, and thank you for pointing out that post 20 was an opinion - opinions are inherently subjective, not objective.
CP
After you went into defensive mode I took the trouble to explain my reasons and that's it. I was not arguing for arguing's sake, just explaining my reasons. Everyone else can read the posts, and also perhaps your past ones on the subject and make their own mind up.
Blackal, to suggest that people do not read my posts is an insult to their intelligence. Are they not at least as capable as you of reading and making up their own minds? Or would you prefer that not seek to understand alternative viewpoints and just repeat the mantra as you have done.
Oh, and thank you for pointing out that post 20 was an opinion - opinions are inherently subjective, not objective.
CP
Cabopino
Guest
Scots Jon, the Garmin maps are there on the Internet to steal alongside the Tomtom ones.
For the record, the Tomtom Poland map I refererred to earlier was downloaded from the Tomtom site last summer and cost me 60 Euros. It also covers the Czech Republic, Germany and Austria.
CP
For the record, the Tomtom Poland map I refererred to earlier was downloaded from the Tomtom site last summer and cost me 60 Euros. It also covers the Czech Republic, Germany and Austria.
CP
Deleted account W
Guest
Can we move on now gents. I think everyone's stated their case. Back to GPS's and there relative merits rather than discussions on the semantics of the words subjective and opinion.
Thanks,
Whatton in Mod mode
Thanks,
Whatton in Mod mode
Cabopino
Guest
Surely it's "Back to GPS's and their relative merits" 
Deleted account W
Guest
scots_jon
Registered user
But then you can't unlock them without a code and there aren't any cracks? Or am I missing something.
I am interested in this as I have CN8 and CN9, both fuly paid for but Garmin refuse to give me a new unlock code as I've used both unlock codes. This is despite the fact that the two unit that were unlocked (both SPIII) are broken (one has a dud screen, the other disintegrated when i spilt petrol on it filling up the GS).
Cabopino
Guest
Seriously, point taken Whatton... back on topic...
Scots Jon, yes many are unlocked and appear to have been repackaged. I don't condone it either. I don't have a map-capable Garmin anyway.
CP
Scots Jon, yes many are unlocked and appear to have been repackaged. I don't condone it either. I don't have a map-capable Garmin anyway.
CP
andyclift
Registered user
Thrown your rattle out of the pram then?
Cabopino
Guest
Not at all. You said your piece, I have said mine, I have no interest in arguing for arguing's sake, and as Whatton suggested, I moved on....
CP
CP
SkyGod
What Tyre pressure you running
Sat here in the Copper Beach hotel in ABercrave having a pint before I start the level 1 course tmrw and fascinated by how much time you guys spend sparring with each other about your different opinions.
Like Ive said in other posts, I`m sure if you where all sat face to face in a boozer you wouldnt be quite a vocal as your are with your keyboards.
Oh,,,,,,,,and IVe got a Zumo and love.........
Like Ive said in other posts, I`m sure if you where all sat face to face in a boozer you wouldnt be quite a vocal as your are with your keyboards.
Oh,,,,,,,,and IVe got a Zumo and love.........
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