HELP....BIKE WON'T START

[Magwych]

Can you move the ring gear forward by hand? If you cannot mnove it it could have seized/gummed up and a new solenoid won't fix that. The starter is easy enough to dismantle and the solenoid does not have many moving parts.
I had onbe starter that gto very lazy, turned out the helix on which the ring gear should slide forward was gummed up. I spent a morning with releasing fluid, gentle persuasion then some grease to get it sliding nicely again.

 

[Watty100]

Can you move the ring gear forward by hand? If you cannot mnove it it could have seized/gummed up and a new solenoid won't fix that. The starter is easy enough to dismantle and the solenoid does not have many moving parts.
I had onbe starter that gto very lazy, turned out the helix on which the ring gear should slide forward was gummed up. I spent a morning with releasing fluid, gentle persuasion then some grease to get it sliding nicely again.

Thanks, but the engine isn't seized, I can turn it by hand with a plug out. The starter is spinning freely when power is supplied direct, by-passing the solenoid, the solenoid isn't doing its second job of flicking out the gear to engage with and turn the engine.

I'll post an update when the new part is fitted.

 

[SteveM]

Watty, I think Magwych is asking if you can slide the small spur gear on the starter shaft back and forth by hand, or is it jammed in the 'home' position, not whether or not you can turn the engine by using the ring gear. That's the way I understood his question anyway. Good luck, Steve.

 

[Watty100]

Watty, I think Magwych is asking if you can slide the small spur gear on the starter shaft back and forth by hand, or is it jammed in the 'home' position, not whether or not you can turn the engine by using the ring gear. That's the way I understood his question anyway. Good luck, Steve.

Ah, I see what he means now, my mistake
In that case, yes, I can get the starter shaft to go back and forth by hand, everything on it seems to work fine. except the solenoid. Just a pity I can't that bit separately. Anyway, the new one is marked up as dispatched, so I'll soon know one way or the other.

 

[Watty100]

To Finalise the Thread....

It wasn't the starter or solenoid. I did something very stupid when doing my checks and accept the "Muppet of the Week Award".
Roger was correct, it was the wiring and a big thanks to him for his help

So if you happen to be reading this thread hoping to diagnose and fix a similar fault, here is a summary:

Key in, ignition comes on, no warning messages on the dashboard, but the starter motor is not turning the engine over;

1. Check battery, if the lights go dim and you can hear a loud clicking sound as the solenoid tries to kick in, chances are the battery has low charge. Recharge or replace.
2. If the battery is good, can you hear the relay faintly clicking as you push the starter button? (Its under the front seat on up-to 2007 bikes, under the tank on later model hexheads, not sure about twin-cams and toilets).
3. The relay is clicking? Good. To save a lot of time and hassle, do this next: Remove the cover over the starter motor (one screw and pull it back and off).
4. You can now see the thin black wire that goes to the solenoid. Pull it off. Now connect (i.e. just touch) a wire from your battery +ve terminal direct to the spade connector the black wire went to. The starter should now kick into life, and if the ignition is switched on, the bike will start.
5. If you have access to a multimeter, put the +ve probe to the black wire, the -ve to earth. You will probably find that you have much less than 12 volts coming through, which is the cause of your problems.
6. The "official" fix: Go back to the relay, trace where the thick red wire goes to in the loom, find the dodgy connector or broken bit and re-wire/re-attach/re-solder accordingly.
7. The quick fix: Cut the thick red wire that goes to the solenoid. Cover and seal the end that goes back to the loom. Attach a new wire to the end that goes into the relay, fix the other end to the battery +ve. The bike will now start off the button as normal. Sorted!
And don't worry about that red wire being permanently live, the bike won't start without the key in and starter button being pushed. I think its permanently live anyway.

This appears to be a fairly common problem and hopefully you'll now be able to sort it a bit quicker and easier than I did!

 

[Bendy toy]

My bike and my brothers bike and s few discussions on here have wires chafed in the bundle alongside the battery and air box.
There's a good chance that's where the problem lies.


Sent somehow.

 

[Santa-2512]

Its the solenoid thats knackered

It doesn't "click" when power is supplied to it, or transfer power from the inlet to outlet.
It doesn't kick out the gear to engage the ring gear when its powered up, even though the starter motor itself spins freely.

I've spent an hour searching for just the solenoid, to no avail. It seems that you can get one for just about every starter made by Valeo except the ones on the hexheads Bloody typical.

So new starter motor ordered from Wemoto for £125 inc delivery.

Did you try Starteron?

If its a D6G2 unit, the solenoid is 594686 they show it on there site


Mart

 

[Santa-2512]

7. The quick fix: Cut the thick red wire that goes to the solenoid. Cover and seal the end that goes back to the loom. Attach a new wire to the end that goes into the relay, fix the other end to the battery +ve. The bike will now start off the button as normal. Sorted!
And don't worry about that red wire being permanently live, the bike won't start without the key in and starter button being pushed. I think its permanently live anyway.

This appears to be a fairly common problem and hopefully you'll now be able to sort it a bit quicker and easier than I did!

Sorry, can you clarify this?

are you saying break the main +Ve feed to the solenoid (ie unbolt it) then run a wire from the relay to the battery +Ve??

The how is the solenoid going to get a +Ve feed?

Mart

 

[Bendy toy]

@Waty is talking about the wire that triggers the solenoid not the main power lead.


Sent somehow.

 

[Watty100]

Did you try Starteron?

If its a D6G2 unit, the solenoid is 594686 they show it on there site


Mart

Good find, duly noted for future reference thanks.

 

[Watty100]

Sorry, can you clarify this?

are you saying break the main +Ve feed to the solenoid (ie unbolt it) then run a wire from the relay to the battery +Ve??

The how is the solenoid going to get a +Ve feed?

Mart

Theres 4 wires going into the relay. The two light coloured thin ones are from the starter button and activate the relay. Don't touch these.

The thicker red one is +ve power from the ECU or somewhere into the relay. The black wire goes down to the starter solenoid and becomes live when the starter button is pushed, allowing the solenoid to give power to the starter motor.

If you have the same fault, i.e. less than 12 volts getting to the black wire, do the fix as above by cutting the red wire and connecting it direct to the battery. And don't forget to re-connect the black wire to the solenoid!

If you want a photo of the mod, shout up and I'll post one.

 

[Santa-2512]

Theres 4 wires going into the relay. The two light coloured thin ones are from the starter button and activate the relay. Don't touch these.

The thicker red one is +ve power from the ECU or somewhere into the relay. The black wire goes down to the starter solenoid and becomes live when the starter button is pushed, allowing the solenoid to give power to the starter motor.

If you have the same fault, i.e. less than 12 volts getting to the black wire, do the fix as above by cutting the red wire and connecting it direct to the battery. And don't forget to re-connect the black wire to the solenoid!

If you want a photo of the mod, shout up and I'll post one.

Yes please,

I'm more than likely to feck it up otherwise


mart

 

[Watty100]

OK, first of all remove the seat and tool tray to get to the starter relay, the little green thing here.

There is one screw to remove to be able to turn it upside down.

(Apologies to owners of '08 onwards bikes, you're going to have to remove the fuel tank.)

 

[Santa-2512]

Got it

Similar to my method, New lead from earth to starter & live to starter

Mart

 

[Magwych]

OK, first of all remove the seat and tool tray to get to the starter relay, the little green thing here.

There is one screw to remove to be able to turn it upside down.

(Apologies to owners of '08 onwards bikes, you're going to have to remove the fuel tank.)

On later models (2008 on) the start relay is relocated underneath the ECU/ZFE atop the engine

It wasn't the starter or solenoid. I did something very stupid when doing my checks and accept the "Muppet of the Week Award".
Roger was correct, it was the wiring and a big thanks to him for his help

So if you happen to be reading this thread hoping to diagnose and fix a similar fault, here is a summary:

Key in, ignition comes on, no warning messages on the dashboard, but the starter motor is not turning the engine over;

1. Check battery, if the lights go dim and you can hear a loud clicking sound as the solenoid tries to kick in, chances are the battery has low charge. Recharge or replace.
2. If the battery is good, can you hear the relay faintly clicking as you push the starter button? (Its under the front seat on up-to 2007 bikes, under the tank on later model hexheads, not sure about twin-cams and toilets).
3. The relay is clicking? Good. To save a lot of time and hassle, do this next: Remove the cover over the starter motor (one screw and pull it back and off).
4. You can now see the thin black wire that goes to the solenoid. Pull it off. Now connect (i.e. just touch) a wire from your battery +ve terminal direct to the spade connector the black wire went to. The starter should now kick into life, and if the ignition is switched on, the bike will start.
5. If you have access to a multimeter, put the +ve probe to the black wire, the -ve to earth. You will probably find that you have much less than 12 volts coming through, which is the cause of your problems.
6. The "official" fix: Go back to the relay, trace where the thick red wire goes to in the loom, find the dodgy connector or broken bit and re-wire/re-attach/re-solder accordingly.
7. The quick fix: Cut the thick red wire that goes to the solenoid. Cover and seal the end that goes back to the loom. Attach a new wire to the end that goes into the relay, fix the other end to the battery +ve. The bike will now start off the button as normal. Sorted!
And don't worry about that red wire being permanently live, the bike won't start without the key in and starter button being pushed. I think its permanently live anyway.

This appears to be a fairly common problem and hopefully you'll now be able to sort it a bit quicker and easier than I did!

Sent from my SM-T280 using Tapatalk

 

[Bendy toy]

Does this mod affect the starter lock-out features? Side stand, neutral, clutch position?


Sent somehow.

 

[Watty100]

Does this mod affect the starter lock-out features? Side stand, neutral, clutch position?


Sent somehow.

No, everything is working as it should. Bike is back in daily use.

 

[Bendy toy]

Great fix & well done finding the chafed wires.


Sent somehow.