Hilltop vs Powercommander V and AutoTune (Dual Channel)?

[PanzerRider]

As you are in Colorado I would give Beamer Boneyard a call about the BMW AF-XIED lambda offset devices. ( they used to sell power commander till these came along)
I have used PCV with auto tune, etc,etc, also been and had a talk with Geoff at hilltop.
I have had these lambda offset devices fitted for nearly 2 years , 20K miles and hours of road logged data with a dual channel innovate LM2 and GS911 I can recommend these.
They work, are easy to install, can be removed and fitted to another bike, and don't need any setting up.
BMW AF-XIED the future of fuel management is under your nose. or at least in Florida.
I have no connection with the company, I am just an anorak collecting data.

Thanks for this. I ordered one.

 

[Mistacat]

Good to hear that you got sorted.
I would leave them set on setting 7.
On 7 I am getting an air fuel ratio of 13.8 to 1 in closed loop and the open loop map will learn from the closed loop after a few tanks of fuel.
It takes a while as there are 288 cells in the fuel map so takes a while to adjust these. ( full throttle dyno run will only populate a max of 10 of these cells Ok for a race bike !) So it needs plenty of road miles at different throttle openings and engine loads.
Just plug in and enjoy,

 

[PanzerRider]

Good to hear that you got sorted.
I would leave them set on setting 7.
On 7 I am getting an air fuel ratio of 13.8 to 1 in closed loop and the open loop map will learn from the closed loop after a few tanks of fuel.
It takes a while as there are 288 cells in the fuel map so takes a while to adjust these. ( full throttle dyno run will only populate a max of 10 of these cells Ok for a race bike !) So it needs plenty of road miles at different throttle openings and engine loads.
Just plug in and enjoy,

I will have to wait until next spring as the snow has come! Will take your advice and leave it on 7 for a while. Do you have an Akra end can and header? I bought the Akra end can which I love for the sound. Thought I would buy the titanium header to save a little weight but more for a fun winter project. Does the setting need to change from 7 when changing the header?

 

[Blackal]

This is exactly what a Power Commander does NOT do.
If you install a PC, you (or whoever does the setup) need to have a specific goal in mind (extra power, improved fuel consumption, rectifying mistakes in the original fuel map, etc.).
Next, you need to obtain (or if necessary, create) a fuelling map that enriches or enleans accordingly, at every single point in the rev range. (And if you've ever had a look at a PC fuel map, you will realise that it doesn't just enrich or enlean according to revs - it does it according to load as well. Engine load is a dynamic factor that is a function of throttle position vs. revs vs. vehicle speed.
This is why most first-timers get the map wrong - they can't visualise the load they put on the engine under most circumstances vs. how their riding style translates into enrichment/enleanment requirements, and then translate that information into the enrichment/enleanment percentages that they need to create or adjust each point on the map.

All this is a long-winded way of saying that the PC does not choose 'the best' fuelling for your bike. It is not 'intelligent'. It can only do what you have told it to do - for better or for worse.
(Like most computers, really).

The Autotune module does not give you an easy way around this issue, either. All it's there for is to remove some of the guesswork by telling you whether the enrichment/enleanment results you have specified are being translated into specific Lambda (exhaust oxygen content) values, and therefore tell you whether your bike is or isn't fuelling according to the map you have specified. If it is, you have the option to accept the values. If, not, you can choose to alter the map and start again.

You've obviously investigated fuel mapping much further than I - but I'm pretty sure I was quoting a Dynojet blurb, not making my own interpretation.

I'm happy to accept your understanding, though
Al

 

[Mistacat]

I will have to wait until next spring as the snow has come! Will take your advice and leave it on 7 for a while. Do you have an Akra end can and header? I bought the Akra end can which I love for the sound. Thought I would buy the titanium header to save a little weight but more for a fun winter project. Does the setting need to change from 7 when changing the header?

I run a full aftermarket exhaust.
The BMW ECU is a brilliant piece of kit it will compensate for just about everything, High or low fuel pressure , atmospheric pressure, engine temp, air temp , even worn or gummed injectors, partly blocked air filter, etc etc.
In stock form it will run 14.7 to 1 AFR in closed loop and open loop will learn from this. With the AF-XIED`s installed it will run at what you set it at.

 

[Mistacat]

You've obviously investigated fuel mapping much further than I - but I'm pretty sure I was quoting a Dynojet blurb, not making my own interpretation.

I'm happy to accept your understanding, though
Al

The Autotune that I had, you inserted the values that you required and then had to accept the trims to alter the map.
The information in the adverts said "it sends the information to the Power Commander V and it corrects it while you ride" which would be ideal.
I had a word with the chaps at Power commander at a trade show and they said that it "didn't run directly off the wideband sensors" but it was something they were looking at in the future.
This was about 3 years ago so things may well have been updated.