Loose Spoke recall

[Deleted account 250319001]

Yes, it does. How many looses spokes have been detected before delivery? All of the issues are on customers bikes, so it would be good to know that it’s been sorted.

I’ll be honest now. I popped to my BMW dealer to have a look at the bikes over the last couple of weekends, as I’m about to place an order for a new bike this week. I quite like the look of the Rallye in the flesh, and the price actually works out slightly cheaper than the 1290S, as I’ll be making some modifications before delivery, but I just don’t have any confidence in BMW’s quality control.

If the dealer said “BMW has identified the issue, and has put XYZ quality control in place to make sure the issue doesn’t happen in future”, I would have been closer to doing a deal. But the shoulder shrugging just doesn’t make me want to return.

If you ask,the salesman may give you a cuddle ?

 

[Engineer]

Yes, it does. How many looses spokes have been detected before delivery? All of the issues are on customers bikes, so it would be good to know that it’s been sorted.

I’ll be honest now. I popped to my BMW dealer to have a look at the bikes over the last couple of weekends, as I’m about to place an order for a new bike this week. I quite like the look of the Rallye in the flesh, and the price actually works out slightly cheaper than the 1290S, as I’ll be making some modifications before delivery, but I just don’t have any confidence in BMW’s quality control.

If the dealer said “BMW has identified the issue, and has put XYZ quality control in place to make sure the issue doesn’t happen in future”, I would have been closer to doing a deal. But the shoulder shrugging just doesn’t make me want to return.

The you will miss out on a great bike.

 

[Nutty]

The you will miss out on a great bike.

I’ve had quite a few, so know what I’ll be missing.

 

[spm0912]

I had a new rear wheel under warranty. The service manager told me BMW had used a different grub screw which had been locktighted in. There was a noticeable ‘ting’ instead of a thud when tapping the spokes. 4K miles later the spokes are still taut.

Sorted? Maybe? But I shall be keeping a close eye on them

 

[knutk]

Latest rumor I've heard is that problem with the loose spokes turned up as BMW changed the alloy and coating on the nipples in order to make them more resistant to corrosion. Apparently there was less friction between the screw and rim, so the screw would start to slip. (this rumor did not mention locktight, but it specified in the repmanual)

 

[Deleted account 191119001]

I had a new rear wheel under warranty. The service manager told me BMW had used a different grub screw which had been locktighted in. There was a noticeable ‘ting’ instead of a thud when tapping the spokes. 4K miles later the spokes are still taut.

Sorted? Maybe? But I shall be keeping a close eye on them

Sounds logical that, it had to come from something, and the weakest point was the grub screw.

 

[Nutty]

I had a new rear wheel under warranty. The service manager told me BMW had used a different grub screw which had been locktighted in. There was a noticeable ‘ting’ instead of a thud when tapping the spokes. 4K miles later the spokes are still taut.

Sorted? Maybe? But I shall be keeping a close eye on them

Latest rumor I've heard is that problem with the loose spokes turned up as BMW changed the alloy and coating on the nipples in order to make them more resistant to corrosion. Apparently there was less friction between the screw and rim, so the screw would start to slip. (this rumor did not mention locktight, but it specified in the repmanual)

That makes sense. An official statement from BMW isn’t too much to ask though.

 

[Engineer]

Yes, it does. How many looses spokes have been detected before delivery? All of the issues are on customers bikes, so it would be good to know that it’s been sorted.

I’ll be honest now. I popped to my BMW dealer to have a look at the bikes over the last couple of weekends, as I’m about to place an order for a new bike this week. I quite like the look of the Rallye in the flesh, and the price actually works out slightly cheaper than the 1290S, as I’ll be making some modifications before delivery, but I just don’t have any confidence in BMW’s quality control.

If the dealer said “BMW has identified the issue, and has put XYZ quality control in place to make sure the issue doesn’t happen in future”, I would have been closer to doing a deal. But the shoulder shrugging just doesn’t make me want to return.

Quality is statistical measure - to be sure that quality has improved you will need to wait several years and carefully examine all issues before you will be able to make a decision whether the or not quality has got better, this applies to all issues not just this spoke thing. No manufacturer is going to give you details of their quality control process other than in very general terms and you wouldn’t expect them to.

The wheel supplier will have their quality process in place, that BMW would have vetted at some point, something has gone wrong so I am sure that BMW will be giving them a kick up the bum

 

[knutk]

Quality is statistical measure - to be sure that quality has improved you will need to wait several years and carefully examine all issues before you will be able to make a decision whether the or not quality has got better, this applies to all issues not just this spoke thing. No manufacturer is going to give you details of their quality control process other than in very general terms and you wouldn’t expect them to.

The wheel supplier will have their quality process in place, that BMW would have vetted at some point, something has gone wrong so I am sure that BMW will be giving them a kick up the bum

Probably right.

However, in my experience from customer related business, the worst thing you can do to your customers is leave information out and feed them with nonsence. Whenever a problem comes up where customers wants an answer, honesty beats BS every time.

In this case, there is probably an plausible explanation. I feel confident that most customers, if they where told the truth, would say, "Fair enough, good thing you fixed it. Carry on".

Now, without proper information, there will be an aura of uncertainty regarding the wheels for years to come. Not a wise policy.

 

[Nutty]

Probably right.

However, in my experience from customer related business, the worst thing you can do to your customers is leave information out and feed them with nonsence. Whenever a problem comes up where customers wants an answer, honesty beats BS every time.

In this case, there is probably an plausible explanation. I feel confident that most customers, if they where told the truth, would say, "Fair enough, good thing you fixed it. Carry on".

Now, without proper information, there will be an aura of uncertainty regarding the wheels for years to come. Not a wise policy.

Nail on the head

 

[Deleted account 191119001]

Probably right.

However, in my experience from customer related business, the worst thing you can do to your customers is leave information out and feed them with nonsence. Whenever a problem comes up where customers wants an answer, honesty beats BS every time.

In this case, there is probably an plausible explanation. I feel confident that most customers, if they where told the truth, would say, "Fair enough, good thing you fixed it. Carry on".

Now, without proper information, there will be an aura of uncertainty regarding the wheels for years to come. Not a wise policy.

Must agree 100% on what you say, however we are dealing with a massive company, and the bean counters will not be happy to do a recall, and change every spoked wheel, which is what should really be done, they will front it out, lose a few sales, but the few sales, will be less than an image wrecking recall.

 

[knutk]

Must agree 100% on what you say, however we are dealing with a massive company, and the bean counters will not be happy to do a recall, and change every spoked wheel, which is what should really be done, they will front it out, lose a few sales, but the few sales, will be less than an image wrecking recall.

I think you are right in your analyzs, even if, quite frankly, when it comes to image wrecking, one more recall would be as rear as a sausage in a butcher shop...

 

[RedRick Esq.]

Must agree 100% on what you say, however we are dealing with a massive company, and the bean counters will not be happy to do a recall, and change every spoked wheel, which is what should really be done, they will front it out, lose a few sales, but the few sales, will be less than an image wrecking recall.

Mercedes had a problem similar ( not loose spokes) on build quality

They used to over engineer and make the product almost indestructible, Look at all this merc taxis with millions of KM on the same engine etc. The accountants figure out how much could be saved and there fore profit increased if they made everything just cheaper. To get cheaper meant losing the quality.

They went too far and lost loads of customers and had to put at least some of the quality back in.

However there is also the argument that they lose more money in having a product that lasts for tens of years than a shonky one which will be replaced every 3 years.

AS for the current BMW spoke issue

AS with everything big and corporate they out source the wheel manufacture and of course have screwed the company that makes the wheels to the floor on price so the only profit left for the wheel maker is to cut a few corners here and there

 

[Engineer]

Probably right.

However, in my experience from customer related business, the worst thing you can do to your customers is leave information out and feed them with nonsence. Whenever a problem comes up where customers wants an answer, honesty beats BS every time.

In this case, there is probably an plausible explanation. I feel confident that most customers, if they where told the truth, would say, "Fair enough, good thing you fixed it. Carry on".

Now, without proper information, there will be an aura of uncertainty regarding the wheels for years to come. Not a wise policy.

That’s all true, the devil however is in the detail, trying to give customers any form of technical explanation is fraught with potential problems and misunderstandings - best thing for BMW and their dealers to say is ‘we have had a problem with a number of spoked wheels, but it has been addressed’.

 

[Bounce]

If you ask,the salesman may give you a cuddle ?

You may find that's on the 'optional extras' list

 

[Nutty]

That’s all true, the devil however is in the detail, trying to give customers any form of technical explanation is fraught with potential problems and misunderstandings - best thing for BMW and their dealers to say is ‘we have had a problem with a number of spoked wheels, but it has been addressed’.

But they aren’t saying that it has been addressed.

 

[Engineer]

But they aren’t saying that it has been addressed.

They should do - maybe they haven’t dotted all the ‘i’s and ‘t’s yet, dunno but it doesn’t bovver me - if the new rear wheel they put on my bike a few weeks ago develops loose spokes then Ill get them to change it again.

P.S. I don’t really like spoked wheels much because they always need checking - think it’s even in the manual somewhere.

 

[fred_jb]

They should do - maybe they haven’t dotted all the ‘i’s and ‘t’s yet, dunno but it doesn’t bovver me - if the new rear wheel they put on my bike a few weeks ago develops loose spokes then Ill get them to change it again.

P.S. I don’t really like spoked wheels much because they always need checking - think it’s even in the manual somewhere.

Not sure why road riders buy bikes with spoked wheels, maybe it's because unlike the GS the GSA doesn't have the option of cast wheels?

 

[Deleted account 191119001]

Not sure why road riders buy bikes with spoked wheels, maybe it's because unlike the GS the GSA doesn't have the option of cast wheels?

It,s all about the look, you are either hardcore or not.................... give me alloys anyday.

 

[Deleted account 191119001]

Mercedes had a problem similar ( not loose spokes) on build quality

They used to over engineer and make the product almost indestructible, Look at all this merc taxis with millions of KM on the same engine etc. The accountants figure out how much could be saved and there fore profit increased if they made everything just cheaper. To get cheaper meant losing the quality.

They went too far and lost loads of customers and had to put at least some of the quality back in.

However there is also the argument that they lose more money in having a product that lasts for tens of years than a shonky one which will be replaced every 3 years.

AS for the current BMW spoke issue

AS with everything big and corporate they out source the wheel manufacture and of course have screwed the company that makes the wheels to the floor on price so the only profit left for the wheel maker is to cut a few corners here and there

So true Rick, look at all the taxi Skodas out there now.