Thanks for the info but thinking that as it doesn't need the rubber seal if it is being replaced with a solid bush it will not be a problem
Pivot bearings
- Thread starter Tim1200
- Start date
Thanks for the info but thinking that as it doesn't need the rubber seal if it is being replaced with a solid bush it will not be a problem
All these issues with BMW bikes is really starting to depress me. Its one thing after another.. Its not as if these bikes do stellar miles.
BMW hang your head in SHAME. Unstoppable!. You mean Unbelievable! How you get away with poor design?. The real smack in the face to the customer is a real money spinner for you...
BMW hang your head in SHAME. Unstoppable!. You mean Unbelievable! How you get away with poor design?. The real smack in the face to the customer is a real money spinner for you...
Easy solution - get something else. Then you can be happy and you won't have to moan all the time
i pays me money. therefor i have the right to moan. and u sir can kiss my ass
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I was shown play in my pivot bearing at the 600 (yes six hundred) mile service but was told it was acceptable and nothing to worry about 
I was shown play in my pivot bearing at the 600 (yes six hundred) mile service but was told it was acceptable and nothing to worry about
I was told the same about mine and to leave it until it gets much worse and becomes a problem , however, I would rather find a permanent or much longer lasting fix . I now have the number for the needle roller side (it is an INA bearing ...............INA F-240317). I think I will pop along to the local bearing supplier and try to find an 'oilite' bush that will fit
paralever bearings
These have been a problem on BMW suspension systems since the introduction of the "paralever" in the mid-1980s. Around seven years ago I reverted to BMW airheads from my 1200 Adventure due mainly to decreasing build quality and also the introduction of far too many electronics to be sustainable on long runs out of range of BMW dealers/repairers.
Anyway, the bearings immediately in front of the final drive are the problem on airheads. If the problem on 1200s is the bearing at the front of the swing arm then the following might not be a possible solution to your problem.
As described above the OEM bearing application is a needle roller bearing only obtainable from BMW at currently around £60 each (for airheads). Restricted rocking movement means that the same few needles take a continual pounding and suffer early demise.
Several alternatives have been devised to address this problem, including a plain bronze bush working against the outer ring of the OEM bearing. These were found to seize up and consequently dangerous. There's an alternative system on the market which involves a hardened alloy pin within a brass or bronze cup. It includes a detachable grease nipple for regular lubrication. Tried these and they scored badly after around 10,000 miles.
On Adventurerider forum there's a chap with the handle of "mouthfulloflake" who's commissioned the production of "Nylager Nushings", which are a Nylatron impregnated with molybdenum disulphide. The bush replaces the bearing and pivots on the standard pin. Nylatron is a self-lubricating 21st Century solution to suspension bushing problems. Downside is that Nylatron is known to swell if subjected to long-term damp. That isn't a problem inside a paralever.
I've run Nushings on my R100GS for around 10,000 miles, including a recent 12-day, 5000 mile run up to NordKapp over probably some of the roughest and unmade roads in Europe. The back end of the bike is as tight as the day these were fitted so signs look good. I believe there are chaps over in the States who have done in excess of 50,000 miles on Nushings.
Now the problem for you guys is that the Nushings currently made fit all BMW paralevers prior to the 1200. But Nylatron is readily available in the round and all that it takes is for someone with a lathe to cut them to the size of the OEM bearings. You'd also need a thrust washer to keep them in place. Have a look at the posts on Advrider.
For bikes still within warranty you might as well get the official repair but outside warranty these paralever bearings are a PITA.
So maybe you don't have to put up with the OEM bearings. There is a solution!
Dave.
These have been a problem on BMW suspension systems since the introduction of the "paralever" in the mid-1980s. Around seven years ago I reverted to BMW airheads from my 1200 Adventure due mainly to decreasing build quality and also the introduction of far too many electronics to be sustainable on long runs out of range of BMW dealers/repairers.
Anyway, the bearings immediately in front of the final drive are the problem on airheads. If the problem on 1200s is the bearing at the front of the swing arm then the following might not be a possible solution to your problem.
As described above the OEM bearing application is a needle roller bearing only obtainable from BMW at currently around £60 each (for airheads). Restricted rocking movement means that the same few needles take a continual pounding and suffer early demise.
Several alternatives have been devised to address this problem, including a plain bronze bush working against the outer ring of the OEM bearing. These were found to seize up and consequently dangerous. There's an alternative system on the market which involves a hardened alloy pin within a brass or bronze cup. It includes a detachable grease nipple for regular lubrication. Tried these and they scored badly after around 10,000 miles.
On Adventurerider forum there's a chap with the handle of "mouthfulloflake" who's commissioned the production of "Nylager Nushings", which are a Nylatron impregnated with molybdenum disulphide. The bush replaces the bearing and pivots on the standard pin. Nylatron is a self-lubricating 21st Century solution to suspension bushing problems. Downside is that Nylatron is known to swell if subjected to long-term damp. That isn't a problem inside a paralever.
I've run Nushings on my R100GS for around 10,000 miles, including a recent 12-day, 5000 mile run up to NordKapp over probably some of the roughest and unmade roads in Europe. The back end of the bike is as tight as the day these were fitted so signs look good. I believe there are chaps over in the States who have done in excess of 50,000 miles on Nushings.
Now the problem for you guys is that the Nushings currently made fit all BMW paralevers prior to the 1200. But Nylatron is readily available in the round and all that it takes is for someone with a lathe to cut them to the size of the OEM bearings. You'd also need a thrust washer to keep them in place. Have a look at the posts on Advrider.
For bikes still within warranty you might as well get the official repair but outside warranty these paralever bearings are a PITA.
So maybe you don't have to put up with the OEM bearings. There is a solution!
Dave.
Charming ! The constant whinging on this forum is getting beyond a joke. Well informed comment and constructive criticism is helpful. Kiss my donkey comments are just infantile.
The 1200 have a different setup than the airheads and 1150. There is no preload on the final drive to swingarm bearings. The final drive is held in position by the double row ball race at one side and has a needle bearing at the other. Nushings would not be possible to fit in this location.
Thing is why have needle roller at all , why not have a double roller sealed ball race bearing at both side
FIIK, someone must have thought it was a good idea?
Deleted account 190920002
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On a course in Lubeck one of the resident techs said "roller ball race bearings can when under too much pressure deform",that's what I heard and certainly a lot of high speed shafts I overhauled did have needle roller bearings. There again a lot of lo to medium speed s/s shafts had phospher bronze bush bearings which as long as they were lubed were ok for prelonged use in a wet / salty environment.
Isn't there a thread about Nushings floating around somewhere
I think it hails from ADV rider forum
They are Nylon/Molywhatnot/steel bushings to replace the current stuff
about £50 quid if i recal
I think it hails from ADV rider forum
They are Nylon/Molywhatnot/steel bushings to replace the current stuff
about £50 quid if i recal
Ah thanks Kenny, I didn't know that. It's a pity though as Nushings do seem to be providing a solution for the airheads and 11**s. Doesn't provide an answer though why BMW persist with needle bearings in that type of environment. Good luck finding a fix,
Dave.
Bendy toy
Registered user
BMW have previous for under-lubricating their bearings. Customers complain about grease marks on the nice new paint. Every one of my suspension bearings failed (to be were replaced with excessive wear) due to lack of grease. I now pack them with moly grease - same stuff as used on car drive shaft joints. For rolling bearings this would not be good (50% max to allow room for grease to moved about). But rocking bearings push the grease back and forth so need shed loads of it to keep at least some under the contact surfaces.
Bendy toy
Registered user
Have you looked at igus.co.uk? Igus make polymer bearings designed for zero or low lubrication. I've seen them on farm equipment so they can really take some hammer. If standard sizes don't fit, you can buy the raw material.
Is it possible to replace the needle and ball bearings with Igus material? You will need a sleeve onto the pivot pin as that will be expensive to replace.
BTW. Hexhead front swing arm has an angular contact ball bearing and a needle roller. The needles are fecked on my bike but there is no play so it went back together. Rolling element bearings are plain daft for something that oscillates less than 5 degrees. But tell that to bike designers.
Stripped off the bevel box to change the pivot bearings today, zero wear on the sealed double roller outer bearing, the inner needle roller was almost totally dry (no rust or sign of water ingress) just looked as if it had never been greased or if it had it been then it was the absolute minimum possible.
In the end just replaced the needle roller using the most amount of good quality grease I could get in, mind you on a bike that has never been in deep water and is not regularly jet washed there was a fair bit of corrosion starting on the U/J of the drive shaft .
At least there is now no play in the paralever
In the end just replaced the needle roller using the most amount of good quality grease I could get in, mind you on a bike that has never been in deep water and is not regularly jet washed there was a fair bit of corrosion starting on the U/J of the drive shaft .
At least there is now no play in the paralever
I thought Oldenoughtoknowbetter was talking about paralever bearings? I'm familiar with the mouthfullofflake story. But you seem to describe the actual FD bearing arrangement? Which of course would be entirely different...
Or is the paralever bearing arrangement on the 12 LC asymmetrical?
The bearings that the final drive unit pivots on at the rear end of the swing arm. The outside bearing is a double row ball race which, as well as letting the final drive pivot up and down, fixes the lateral movement of the final drive as the bolt and spacers hold the drive securely against the inner race. So no sideways play. The needle bearing at the other side supports the inner side of the final drive but with no effect on lateral movement. It is similar set up as the final drive with a big ball race on one side and needle rollers on the other. 3 is the double row ball race and 2 is a needle roller.
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