R1150 GS Problem

[petkostas]

My bike is really stubborn when cold, if i start it without revving it will die, I need to start hold on the throttle for a while and wait, even sometimes with 1 temperature bar on the RID it will die!
When it dies I can see the battery icon lightly flashing, after many tries (without throttle) sometimes it catches but slowly dies after a few seconds...
Lately it does this oftenly!
I have also noticed that if I start cold and move the bike I can ride (but I need to slip the clutch a lot to move otherwise my bike stalls) but once I clutch to change gear my bike dies (as the RPM drops for shifting).
Problem vanishes after my bike is warm, or if it has traveled some distance!
I changed my battery today, to an odyssey just in case...but problem still remains, cranked after installing battery, bike starts but if not on throttle it dies...
I have done the throttle trick (open 2 twice, turn off, turn on) but still no good (apart sometimes when it seems to come to life more easy).
I also experienced a stall! twice today (before replacing battery), engine would stop! It was running, everything was on, it just would not respond to throttle! after a few meters it came to life (it seems as it came to life when I down shifted).
Second time it did I checked to see if my RPM's would rise with throttle, but did not, it just responded as if the throttle cables where cut.

P.S 500 Km's It was serviced, fuel filter replaced, air filter replaced.

 

[robc]

Tick over might be set too low. Have you noticed the fast idle lever next to the left handlebar grip? I can't start my 1150GS from cold without holding it up.

Regards

Rob C

 

[petkostas]

Tick over might be set too low. Have you noticed the fast idle lever next to the left handlebar grip? I can't start my 1150GS from cold without holding it up.

Regards

Rob C

Yeah I need to hold it up as well, how long do you need to hold it? It feels I need to hold it quite some time, since if I let it off (1st step not totally off) the RPM drops way to low and the engine dies!
If I hold it for some time, I usually am good to go (except sometimes when the bike stalls while clutching to shift).
It feels as the tick over is set too low

 

[roddy]

When it dies I can see the battery icon lightly flashing,

this happens because the alternator is slowing down as the engine dies so the battery isn't getting charged, hence the low battery light comes on.

whats the revs at tick over ? if these are too low an engine can die till it gets upto a good temp or if theres a sudden drop in load IE changing gear

is your GS the twin spark model by any chance ? the twin spark models can have issues with the plugcaps there is a way of checking them do a search as I can't remember off the top of my head how to do it.

HTH

 

[petkostas]

this happens because the alternator is slowing down as the engine dies so the battery isn't getting charged, hence the low battery light comes on.

whats the revs at tick over ? if these are too low an engine can die till it gets upto a good temp or if theres a sudden drop in load IE changing gear

is your GS the twin spark model by any chance ? the twin spark models can have issues with the plugcaps there is a way of checking them do a search as I can't remember off the top of my head how to do it.

HTH

Nope its the single spark model.
The RPM's at idle until running hot are around 700 (I judge...) I see the engine dying when I let go and the RPM drop as low as 500!
Once hot the engine runs at around 1000 RPM, one strange thing I noticed is that while hot (around 5-6 bars showing) and waiting at a stop light I can feel (haven't tested it on the new battery) and see the power go down! The idle drops around 500, it feels as the engine is running ok, and suddenly there is a slight loss of power, is a give it a small rev (something like a 500 RPM) the power returns to normal, and after a few seconds it drops again!
Throttle cable are ok, as this was my first check.

 

[travelman]

Hi There Petkostas,

Sounds similar alright - once I have it started and revved the throttle until it wont die the revs sit at about 800 on mine then they come up slowly after I've ridden for a while.

Do you notice also when you start that the engine seems to have a hard time turning over, just as you hit the ignition switch - that first roll over of the engine, as if the battery were low? I have that as if the starter is trying to turn over a huge weight.

I will have more answers soon, I've taken my starter motor to a reconditioner, he'll have it back to me tomorrow, if its bad news I'll get a new starter in by tuesday (when the part comes in the post) then I will have more answers and be able to narrow down the fault.

If you discover anything new let us know.

 

[petkostas]

Hi There Petkostas,

Sounds similar alright - once I have it started and revved the throttle until it wont die the revs sit at about 800 on mine then they come up slowly after I've ridden for a while.

Do you notice also when you start that the engine seems to have a hard time turning over, just as you hit the ignition switch - that first roll over of the engine, as if the battery were low? I have that as if the starter is trying to turn over a huge weight.

I will have more answers soon, I've taken my starter motor to a reconditioner, he'll have it back to me tomorrow, if its bad news I'll get a new starter in by tuesday (when the part comes in the post) then I will have more answers and be able to narrow down the fault.

If you discover anything new let us know.

Hey mate, yes it sounds as my problem, I generally feel the battery is ok, the only reason I replaced it is because when starting I was experiencing the stalls, the key turns, I hear the pump and the indication lights work as they should, as soon as I press on the start button the bike reacts as its low on battery, it cranks, but it does not ignite, unless I use my throttle, i have to rev the bike to keep it alive (reving it somewhere at 1500 RPM seems to do the job), if I let the throttle even with the "choke" on it will die!
If I rev it and it comes to temperature (it doesn't die) and I remove the choke it continues to work ok, until I start rolling! Nearly all times if cold (left for a hours, like overnight, or during my office time) it will stall, and mostly it will stall when changing gear (clutch in, RPM drop, engine dies).
I am really sad, because I have already payed 400 euros for service and 250 euros for new tires (I own the bike only 1 month) and I am already searching for my new problems
I hope you find out the reason of our problems (I believe we experience the same problem), battery is definitely a no, since I installed the new one today and experienced the problems as well.
Do you experience the problems once hot? My bike seems to work ok once in running temperature!
Last weekend I was out for a nice trip around 500Km's which involved 2 stops around 1 hour each, the bike had no problems, except the first run (starting from home) where it stalled like 4 times (I was ready to cancel my trip).

 

[roddy]

The RPM's at idle until running hot are around 700 (I judge...) I see the engine dying when I let go and the RPM drop as low as 500!
Once hot the engine runs at around 1000 RPM,

I think your idle maybe a bit on the low side, 1150GS idle is meant to be 1100rpm, try adjusting both the Big Brass screws till you get 1100 on a hot engine, they'll not need to be turned much, if you can't get the idle to 1100, you've other issue's or doing something wrong

 

[petkostas]

I think your idle maybe a bit on the low side, 1150GS idle is meant to be 1100rpm, try adjusting both the Big Brass screws till you get 1100 on a hot engine, they'll not need to be turned much, if you can't get the idle to 1100, you've other issue's or doing something wrong

I could do that, but then again, I can not understand why it would stall after many hours of not working?
I mean if I am out for a trip and stop for a few hours its ok, but if its cold (left overnight) it will stall until reaching temperature??

 

[petkostas]

Hi There Petkostas,

Sounds similar alright - once I have it started and revved the throttle until it wont die the revs sit at about 800 on mine then they come up slowly after I've ridden for a while.

Do you notice also when you start that the engine seems to have a hard time turning over, just as you hit the ignition switch - that first roll over of the engine, as if the battery were low? I have that as if the starter is trying to turn over a huge weight.

I will have more answers soon, I've taken my starter motor to a reconditioner, he'll have it back to me tomorrow, if its bad news I'll get a new starter in by tuesday (when the part comes in the post) then I will have more answers and be able to narrow down the fault.

If you discover anything new let us know.

I start believing this is a Hall sensor issue
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=481533
Feels lots like my problems

 

[travelman]

These are exactly the same symptoms as my bike. I don't think its a rev level issue because once my bike has been ridden and is hot it idles at the normal rev levels.

I thought it might be a hall sensor issue also and I brought it to BMW 3 weeks back, they put it on the computer and said the hall sensor is fine.

Like you its only on first startup of the day. After riding a while its fine then. Its when it gets cold.

Mine as you know has now progressed to not starting at all. I'll be interested to see if yours goes that direction also.

I am assuming its power delivery to flywheel - I wonder is it possible that there is something wrong that is restricting the engine from turning over as freely on ignition - that would put the starter under load. Because as I am trying to start I get a ratcheting sound - like the starter is powering but not turning the engine over fast enough as as I apply choke or throttle it stops turning altogether?????? mmmmmhhhhhhhhh......

Well once I get the starter looked at and if necessary a new one in then we'll have a better idea of where to look.

 

[roddy]

I reread your original post and you mention the bike cut out after you had fitted the new battery, which means you've had the tank off or lifted up, it can be very easy to dislodge the throttle cables from there housings when you do this check the throttle cable is fitted into there holders on the inside edge of the throttle bodies if one is lifted it can cause issue's.

have a look here to see what I mean

Throttle cables

 

[petkostas]

These are exactly the same symptoms as my bike. I don't think its a rev level issue because once my bike has been ridden and is hot it idles at the normal rev levels.

I thought it might be a hall sensor issue also and I brought it to BMW 3 weeks back, they put it on the computer and said the hall sensor is fine.

Like you its only on first startup of the day. After riding a while its fine then. Its when it gets cold.

Mine as you know has now progressed to not starting at all. I'll be interested to see if yours goes that direction also.

I am assuming its power delivery to flywheel - I wonder is it possible that there is something wrong that is restricting the engine from turning over as freely on ignition - that would put the starter under load. Because as I am trying to start I get a ratcheting sound - like the starter is powering but not turning the engine over fast enough as as I apply choke or throttle it stops turning altogether?????? mmmmmhhhhhhhhh......

Well once I get the starter looked at and if necessary a new one in then we'll have a better idea of where to look.

Went to the mechanic today morning (which was a Hell!!!).
It was propably my worst day of problems, bike would stall nearly every meter, but once hot (5 bars) it run ok...
Off course as always when I arrived over to the mechanic bike was warm and problem no more, explained the situation, told them that since last week the problem is even more apparent.
He raised my idle at 1150RPM, and told me to clean my fuel (the truth is that I experienced this problem since my last refill which was in a Village somewhere in the mountains, not the best fuel you can get), so I got a fuel cleaner as well (the one you empty into your fuel tank).
I am at the office at the moment, gonna see how it reacts in the afternoon!
P.S I also mentioned the Hall sensor thing, they told me it makes no sense, since Hall sensors do work or they don't the only reason of not running correctly is that its not configured correctly, since I haven't changed Hall sensor they told me to bypass this possibility.

 

[petkostas]

I reread your original post and you mention the bike cut out after you had fitted the new battery, which means you've had the tank off or lifted up, it can be very easy to dislodge the throttle cables from there housings when you do this check the throttle cable is fitted into there holders on the inside edge of the throttle bodies if one is lifted it can cause issue's.

have a look here to see what I mean

Throttle cables

Thanks mate!
I already have checked this, and also I had the problem even before lifting the tank for the new battery to be installed (thats also the reason for changing the battery, because I noticed a few mornings that I would get the ABS failure while trying to start the bike).

 

[roddy]

the truth is that I experienced this problem since my last refill which was in a Village somewhere in the mountains, not the best fuel you can get

this is a rather relevant bit of info

 

[petkostas]

this is a rather relevant bit of info

Well, refueled and waiting to see how it goes now.

 

[petkostas]

OK news, After refueling AND adjusting the idle speed, bike seems to run WAY better!
Idle was adjusted to 1100 ~ 1150 RPM and the bike really comes happily to life when starting!
Got to ride from work to home with no problems!
So I should suggest checking fuel and idle RPM (before adjustment mine was around 950 ~ 1000 when hot).

 

[petkostas]

Problem is no more, tested today early in the morning (around 7:30am) it was cold and moisture was high, the engine started immediately with no hesitations, let it Idle till I put my helmet and my gloves on and then hit the road, no problems and shifting is also better.
Stopped at destination (around 200Km's away) which was on a mountain (lower temperature) and had no problems starting the bike again once cold!