R1200GSA 2009 FInal drive Noise..??

[musicrunsthru]

Hey Pukmeister

i would have tried to do that by now if i could.. problem is..
when you remove the rear wheel to get to the FD Flange there is a big circlip.. no big deal to remove.. but the flange is fit so that you need to heat everything up just to remove that.. then you can get to the bolts that hold the casings together.. and i think there is a brake disk in there also.. it really does require more than a cold hard concrete floor and my normal tools...

 

[Time Traveller]

Covered that one in post 27.

The crown wheel is a part of the rear axle, all made from one single piece so not able to separate.

Not an easy fix at the roadside, needs a workshop.

covered that one in post 4

 

[Pukmeister]

Hey Pukmeister

i would have tried to do that by now if i could.. problem is..
when you remove the rear wheel to get to the FD Flange there is a big circlip.. no big deal to remove.. but the flange is fit so that you need to heat everything up just to remove that.. then you can get to the bolts that hold the casings together.. and i think there is a brake disk in there also.. it really does require more than a cold hard concrete floor and my normal tools...

Sorry, I was hoping you could undo the bolts by getting at them through the rear drive flange, and then split the faces of the final drive and pull the whole lot out of the casting as an assembly with the drive flange/disk/carrier still fitted.

I've removed/replaced the drive flange before with a blowlamp and gear puller, obviously not the sort of stuff you carry with you on a long trip.

Out of interest, with the bike on the centrestand and the rear wheel removed, can you turn the rear brake disk by hand with the bike in neutral, or is it too tight to turn by hand ?

 

[musicrunsthru]

Sorry, I was hoping you could undo the bolts by getting at them through the rear drive flange, and then split the faces of the final drive and pull the whole lot out of the casting as an assembly with the drive flange/disk/carrier still fitted.

I've removed/replaced the drive flange before with a blowlamp and gear puller, obviously not the sort of stuff you carry with you on a long trip.

Out of interest, with the bike on the centrestand and the rear wheel removed, can you turn the rear brake disk by hand with the bike in neutral, or is it too tight to turn by hand ?

Yep i can turn the rear disk.. no worries.. it spins everything in the FD too and all seams to be smooth..

also with the wheel of there is no real noise at all to be heard..

but i still think something weird has happened to the bearing/s prob something has bent or seized.. just dont know why..???

 

[Pukmeister]

Yep i can turn the rear disk.. no worries.. it spins everything in the FD too and all seams to be smooth..

also with the wheel of there is no real noise at all to be heard..

I guess thats symptomatic of the bearing being unloaded.

 

[juddadredd]

There has to be someone there with a flat bed truck/ van that you can ask to hire to get you to a place where you can get the bike looked at.

I bribed some local cops to move my bike 120km in Thailand when I busted my leg. Cost me about 3000 baht $60

If I can do it you can too, just smile a lot but don't look to needy as that will cost you more.

 

[Tusky]

I'm finding this thread fascinating and hopefully the answer will soon become apparent.

Just a thought but would it be possible to count how many clicks in a full revolution of the rear wheel ?

I lost count pretty quickly but the only thing I can think of, if it is around 90 clicks would be the where the gear drive goes to the 90 degrees in the hub. I think the ratio is 2.28 and it looks like about 40 teeth on the larger gear, therefore perhaps if there is slack, wear or a knocked out bearing on the small shaft, gear, this would give approximately 40 x 2.28 (90) clicks / knocks per minute? but I am no expert.... So would leave it to those in the know shoot my idea in flames

This link shows the exploded view http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/firstrides/2005_bmw_r1200gs/photos/#10 But in my ignorance, I don't even know the name of the parts but I am a big fan of lateral thinking....

My guess is that if this was the problem and it was just some form of thrust slack in the smaller gear or shaft, then you may be able to limp on for a fair few miles.

My other question would be, does it still make a noise if the wheel is rotated in reverse?

Good luck to everyone in trying to solve this problem

 

[DrFarkoff]

I think he took the best option I got a message that he has gone on the Bus with the final drive to a place where it can be checked / repaired

My friend Wilson put his F650GS in the back of an enclosed truck for a mountain crossing the strap broke and between schittin himself with the kamikaze driving and the roads condition he didn't think too much on the bike till he got to the destination it was basically destroyed and unrideable in the time he had to get to the border

Strapping a 1200 down on a flatbed for a distance on bad roads is a BAD idea with all that magnesium rich alloy

There has to be someone there with a flat bed truck/ van that you can ask to hire to get you to a place where you can get the bike looked at.

I bribed some local cops to move my bike 120km in Thailand when I busted my leg. Cost me about 3000 baht $60

If I can do it you can too, just smile a lot but don't look to needy as that will cost you more.

 

[juddadredd]

Hmmm I've have Channel crossings where peoples cars have moved and other peoples bikes have fallen over and my bikes are always fine with all the bumping and swaying even when I'm sick to my guts, but then again I put the tie downs through my frame and not over my seat like I see other cough cough MORE EXPERIENCED RIDERS do, and I always double strap.

My F650 Dakar slammed my leg so hard in to the slab that I got it crushed in to 7 seperate parts all moving in different directions and the bike was 100% fine, friend of mine who's really great at math and physics said that the tension between the track going the other way to me, the tarp from the truck going in to my wheel and sprocket and the fact that I was doing 50 mph whilst doing a left hand bend was about 4G when everything went taught and the forward left momentum turned in to oppersite momentum and the bike flipped right over on to my leg in less then .33 of a second.

Now middle of nowhere in Thailand and you know what the trails are like there lots of MUD and RUTTS and holes and my bike managed the travel no problems from Ranong to Phuket. (306 KM just googled it) with 50 of them not on tarmac.

The BIKES are way stronger then you think, your mate just had a very very bad day and we ALL have them. !!!
Thinkning of that episode I still have my Zega Touratech 41 lt panniers, I might put them on here for sale.


I'm waiting with baited breath to see what happens, does anyone want to start a fund for the poor sod if his FD is knackered?

 

[Sgt Bilco]

Hmmm I've have Channel crossings where peoples cars have moved and other peoples bikes have fallen over and my bikes are always fine with all the bumping and swaying even when I'm sick to my guts, but then again I put the tie downs through my frame and not over my seat like I see other cough cough MORE EXPERIENCED RIDERS do, and I always double strap.

My F650 Dakar slammed my leg so hard in to the slab that I got it crushed in to 7 seperate parts all moving in different directions and the bike was 100% fine, friend of mine who's really great at math and physics said that the tension between the track going the other way to me, the tarp from the truck going in to my wheel and sprocket and the fact that I was doing 50 mph whilst doing a left hand bend was about 4G when everything went taught and the forward left momentum turned in to oppersite momentum and the bike flipped right over on to my leg in less then .33 of a second.

Now middle of nowhere in Thailand and you know what the trails are like there lots of MUD and RUTTS and holes and my bike managed the travel no problems from Ranong to Phuket. (306 KM just googled it) with 50 of them not on tarmac.

The BIKES are way stronger then you think, your mate just had a very very bad day and we ALL have them. !!!
Thinkning of that episode I still have my Zega Touratech 41 lt panniers, I might put them on here for sale.


I'm waiting with baited breath to see what happens, does anyone want to start a fund for the poor sod if his FD is knackered?

That's the most bizarre reply to any thread I've seen for a long time. Have you been drinking?

 

[Bendy toy]

It's not bizarre when read in context with the suggestion about strapping the bike to a flatbed. He was (perhaps over) describing how his bike was thrown about when it got tangled in a lorry tarpaulin, yet while he broke is leg the bike was fine.

Bikes are tough but bounce on around on A flatbedwith broken tiedowns and it soon gets fecked.

 

[Blackal]

It's not bizarre when read in context with the suggestion about strapping the bike to a flatbed. He was (perhaps over) describing how his bike was thrown about when it got tangled in a lorry tarpaulin, yet while he broke is leg the bike was fine.

Bikes are tough but bounce on around on A flatbedwith broken tiedowns and it soon gets fecked.

Thanks for clarifying - I must admit that I struggled to see the connection initially

Al

 

[graham h]

Final drive

Hey Guys

I drained the Oil out today here are the photo's..

i could not really see any particles or metal shavings come out.. only one tiny piece..(first photo).. but maybe thats normal..???

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8349541014/" title="IMG_7173 2 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8232/8349541014_fc2d3cbe59_c.jpg" width="800" height="434" alt="IMG_7173 2"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8348466867/" title="IMG_7186 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8372/8348466867_50f72ce8bc_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7186"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8348469089/" title="IMG_7184 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8510/8348469089_7fab0e7763_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7184"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8348470403/" title="IMG_7183 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8361/8348470403_d608bba053_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7183"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8349531052/" title="IMG_7182 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8086/8349531052_f767c50388_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7182"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8348473593/" title="IMG_7181 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8335/8348473593_784af13e5e_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7181"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8348475031/" title="IMG_7180 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8088/8348475031_42587230bd_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7180"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8348477961/" title="IMG_7178 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8510/8348477961_9f433486f0_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7178"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8348482401/" title="IMG_7172 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8049/8348482401_83088afd6c_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7172"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8348483263/" title="IMG_7171 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8495/8348483263_f02be8e551_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7171"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8348486335/" title="IMG_7155 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8467/8348486335_39b693eeb7_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7155"></a>

i seams too all look ok..

Just buy a Honda saves all the problems of Final Drives falling to bits!
after my third FD on the same BMW Adventurer and rusting like fuck I gave up. now got a honda Crosstourer no problem, no rust and a 3 year warranty says it all............incoming!

 

[Sgt Bilco]

Just buy a Honda saves all the problems of Final Drives falling to bits!
after my third FD on the same BMW Adventurer and rusting like fuck I gave up. now got a honda Crosstourer no problem, no rust and a 3 year warranty says it all............incoming!

Thanks for your helpful reply to the OP who will no doubt be thrilled to bits to know you bought a Honda Cross Dresser.

Unlike the GS in question which may have a serious issue but can be fixed down in South America, I don't suppose we will see you or any other Honda Crosstourer pilot anywhere near the great continent across the water anytime soon.

Can everyone keep the posts on this thread helpful to the OP please?

 

[musicrunsthru]

Just buy a Honda saves all the problems of Final Drives falling to bits!
after my third FD on the same BMW Adventurer and rusting like fuck I gave up. now got a honda Crosstourer no problem, no rust and a 3 year warranty says it all............incoming!

wow...

As much i as appreciate the advice on ditching my near perfect for 75,000miles GSA in favor of the Beautifully named HONDA CROSS-DRESSER.. i need it for more than just to get a perm once a month..??

i have spent 2.5 years riding the globe on my Lady.. through the near freezing high plains in Bolivia and the heat and mud of the Brazilian Amazon.. to the very northern tip of Alaska... Through some stuff that would make your Cross-runner wishing it was still safe and warm in a heated garage longing for the rain to stop so he can go outside...

maybe i will call that plan F for now..

 

[musicrunsthru]

There has to be someone there with a flat bed truck/ van that you can ask to hire to get you to a place where you can get the bike looked at.

I bribed some local cops to move my bike 120km in Thailand when I busted my leg. Cost me about 3000 baht $60

If I can do it you can too, just smile a lot but don't look to needy as that will cost you more.

TO this one i say... while i dont doubt you have traveled on your moto.. have you been through south America.. and just for reference here..

i am in the bottom of the world.. there are more llamas down here than people.. i have only ever seen 1 police officer in maybe 3000km..

the roads from Ushuaia(the very bottom of the Americas) to Punta arenas(500km away) are Very rough wind swept(60mph) gravel roads.. if i was to even find a truck or tow the cost would be about $600USD.. so i will call that plan D...

but thanks for the Advice..

 

[musicrunsthru]

Well it's totally Knackered

Hi All

So i have spent the last 2 days opening the case up and pulling bearings to assess the problem..

have to make up a special tool to pull the FD Flange on the Splines.. lookes like this..
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8365116200/" title="IMG_7190 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8190/8365116200_782243ea48_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7190"></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8365108174/" title="IMG_7191 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8050/8365108174_d1099020b3_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7191"></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8364032215/" title="IMG_7192 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8366/8364032215_b9320524a2_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7192"></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8365094864/" title="IMG_7193 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8072/8365094864_7e1fe0d4d0_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7193"></a>
Inspecting the Bearings for play now the Flange is off... there was a little now..
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8364056647/" title="IMG_7189 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8465/8364056647_89cd5fc53b_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7189"></a>

Noticed a little rust on the Splines...
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8365084658/" title="IMG_7195 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8332/8365084658_a59e5193e4_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7195"></a>

Time to Clean around the casing to stop any unwanted stuff getting in..
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8365079750/" title="IMG_7196 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8097/8365079750_8f700290f7_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7196"></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8363981675/" title="IMG_7197 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8083/8363981675_57c86aa022_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7197"></a>

Next too heat this sucker up and get the bolts removed.. haha Fire...
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8365040022/" title="IMG_7198 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8469/8365040022_76d7b38720_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7198"></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8365034794/" title="IMG_7199 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8506/8365034794_c851a58333_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7199"></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8365029332/" title="IMG_7200 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8335/8365029332_b9238f1d8a_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7200"></a>

only 2 rusty bolts
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8363953175/" title="IMG_7202 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8221/8363953175_ffc417958f_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7202"></a>

Knock gently the top off.. yer yer so i did use a tire iron for a bit..
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8365012166/" title="IMG_7204 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8371/8365012166_657d2ffa9c_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7204"></a>

hey presto..
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8363939645/" title="IMG_7205 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8236/8363939645_820f51b29e_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7205"></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8363935371/" title="IMG_7206 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8090/8363935371_37b30de047_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7206"></a>

more to follow

James

 

[musicrunsthru]

Yep it's Knackered PT 2

OK so now i have the damn thing open..

The inside of the Casing and the Gears all look good... Output Bearing in the bottom of the case all seams fine too.. no play free movement..

only one little mark on the pinion gear..
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8364993098/" title="IMG_7208 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8226/8364993098_ab0be42dc4_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7208"></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8363915773/" title="IMG_7210 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8513/8363915773_aa9d28d755_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7210"></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8363920985/" title="IMG_7209 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8505/8363920985_4eb993c32a_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7209"></a>

next need to press out the Crown Gear Shaft..(the big bit in the middle)
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8363909847/" title="IMG_7211 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8356/8363909847_5597fd088c_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7211"></a>

This is what the Big End Bearing Looked Like... Loads Of Rusty crap.. but bearing was more or less fine..
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8364871230/" title="IMG_7222 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8359/8364871230_024af55b02_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7222"></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8363797121/" title="IMG_7223 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8082/8363797121_30ba0125bd_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7223"></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8363751635/" title="IMG_7226 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8220/8363751635_91d891df05_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7226"></a>

In Conclusion... what had happened is that the Crown Gear Wheel where the Big End Bearing Is Seated Had stripped it's self through.. so the bearing races were about 0.5 to 1mm out and subsequently scored the inside of the bearing races at the same time.... Diagnosis... it's fucked.. next...
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8364792182/" title="IMG_7230 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8375/8364792182_5ab6c8693c_c.jpg" width="533" height="800" alt="IMG_7230"></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8363745075/" title="IMG_7227 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8190/8363745075_c62ed6163f_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7227"></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8363732255/" title="IMG_7229 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8091/8363732255_e9b6e914e1_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7229"></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8364855362/" title="IMG_7225 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8376/8364855362_8c75c5549c_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7225"></a>

The rough bit should be smooth.. like the inside of the bearing races....
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cantweallridealong/8364805412/" title="IMG_7228 by cantweallridealong, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8224/8364805412_c1e24879b6_c.jpg" width="800" height="533" alt="IMG_7228"></a>

so now i guess i must order a new Crown wheel gear..

James

 

[DrFarkoff]

probably cheaper and faster to buy a GOOD used FD Used Ahem, "an oily and 2nd hand" nudge nudge wink wink Final Drive to save on customs duty for new bits

I think Ravenbyrne had one that is correct for you ??? Even better flown in from Ireland no Malvinas issues!

 

[Pukmeister]

I presume the bearing marked 6103 in the pictures is seized solid, looking at the rusty shite around it ??

A good specialist engineering firm could possibly spiral weld and regrind that crownwheel shaft in way of the bearing journal, perhaps worth saving the parts and researching getting it done in slow time as a spare??? I've had large motor armatures repaired by Dowding & Mills in the past using this method (worth 64 grand ).

Glad you chose not to continue to ride it, no telling what could have happened.