Random Engine Cutting out

[david]

Hi
Just wondering if anyone has any ideas as bike is R1200GS Adventure 2007 model , just of lately when coming to a stop when bike is in low revs it randomly cuts out totally, seems to be happening more when hot or riding through town. the bike has had injectors balanced and new spark plugs and battery in last two months..,
Many Thanks David

 

[GORILA]

Hi
Just wondering if anyone has any ideas as bike is R1200GS Adventure 2007 model , just of lately when coming to a stop when bike is in low revs it randomly cuts out totally, seems to be happening more when hot or riding through town. the bike has had injectors balanced and new spark plugs and battery in last two months..,
Many Thanks David

Sounds like one of your ignition coils is breaking down. Cheaper replacements are available from sparkplugs.co.uk at around £50. Check for Beru ZS385.

 

[Santa-2512]

Common fault , it will be the TPS unit, located on LH throttle body

Units available on the bay for about £40 odd

Pardon our interruption...

Two screws and a plug to fit,

If your feeling adventurous, you can take your old one apart and clean it ,

 

[Steptoe]

Before you go spending money on people guesses here’s a simple test .
Disconnect the electrical plug/connection at the secondary/lower coils on both sides.
Then start the bike and see if it runs on both sides on just the main upper coils. .
If runs on only one side reconnect the lower secondary coil on the non running side and see if it improves .
If ok do the same in reverse, disconnect the lower etc etc .. If get what I mean - this will show which, if any, of the coil sticks has failed ..
if all ok then move on to testing the TPS.

 

[GORILA]

Good advice from Steptow re testing things. Another thing to consider other than the TPS is the O2 lambda sensors. I had a failing oxygen sensor give me similar poor running issues. The bike would start and run well when cold, but would start to splatter as it warmed up. This can be tested if you have access to a GS911 diagnostic tool.

 

[Steptoe]

Good advice from Steptow re testing things. Another thing to consider other than the TPS is the O2 lambda sensors. I had a failing oxygen sensor give me similar poor running issues. The bike would start and run well when cold, but would start to splatter as it warmed up. This can be tested if you have access to a GS911 diagnostic tool.

Well pointed out, I forgot about the bad lambda symptom being similar

 

[DrFarkoff]

Good advice from Steptow re testing things. Another thing to consider other than the TPS is the O2 lambda sensors. I had a failing oxygen sensor give me similar poor running issues. The bike would start and run well when cold, but would start to splatter as it warmed up. This can be tested if you have access to a GS911 diagnostic tool.

Or just disconnect them and see if the problem stops?

 

[botus]

if a CAT sensors died and you ride enough it will change the adaptions to wrong - and disconnecting will still give a rough running under performing baseline

 

[DrFarkoff]

if a CAT sensors died and you ride enough it will change the adaptions to wrong - and disconnecting will still give a rough running under performing baseline

BOLLOX You "AI" Twat !!

It will default to a lightly richer Open loop that it uses when cold and the lamda will have no influence over it

Hence "Not" giving a reading that will cause the ECU to weaken the mixture too far and stall the engine!

 

[botus]

of course it does - give it a try - you can see it move almost straight away, it will transition to running like a pig - and as you won't bother to prove yourself as stupid as you keep sharing on this forum, I'll go find you some numbers on adaptions

 

[DrFarkoff]

of course it does - give it a try - you can see it move almost straight away, it will transition to running like a pig - and as you won't bother to prove yourself as stupid as you keep sharing on this forum, I'll go find you some numbers on adaptions

PLEASE Don't Bother boring us with more bullshit!

You stick to your theory and leave the spannering for real people who actually know how to use tools!

When No O2 sensors are "seen" they fall back on their default MAP

Adaptions are out of the equation end off!

 

[botus]

dead bank 1 sensor

Additive Trim bank 1 : 5.16 %
Additive Trim bank 2 : 0.05 %
Multiplicative Trim bank 1 : 1.04
Multiplicative Trim bank 2 : 0.99


new sensors

Additive Trim bank 1 : 0.05 %
Additive Trim bank 2 : 0.05 %
Multiplicative Trim bank 1 : 0.99
Multiplicative Trim bank 2 : 0.98

 

[DrFarkoff]

dead bank 1 sensor

Additive Trim bank 1 : 5.16 %
Additive Trim bank 2 : 0.05 %
Multiplicative Trim bank 1 : 1.04
Multiplicative Trim bank 2 : 0.99


new sensors

Additive Trim bank 1 : 0.05 %
Additive Trim bank 2 : 0.05 %
Multiplicative Trim bank 1 : 0.99
Multiplicative Trim bank 2 : 0.98

DICKHEAD!! You are removing the sensor from the equation as the person likely does not have access to a Diagnostic tool

Another part of you being an "AI bot" Inability to integrate information and or follow instruction!

 

[Mistacat]

As stated if the lambda sensors are disconnected the ecu defaults to a lambda setting of 1.0 which is an AFR of 14.7 to 1
Obviously different to a defective sensor giving a spurious reading.

 

[david]

As stated if the lambda sensors are disconnected the ecu defaults to a lambda setting of 1.0 which is an AFR of 14.7 to 1
Obviously different to a defective sensor giving a spurious reading.

Many Thanks to all who have repiled

 

[botus]

As stated if the lambda sensors are disconnected the ecu defaults to a lambda setting of 1.0 which is an AFR of 14.7 to 1
Obviously different to a defective sensor giving a spurious reading.

there is a difference between one sensor with a failed heater circuit - and both disconnected - Yes if the adaptions are in a good place a lot of the time the bike with run better with them off (on these old bikes) - but if one dies, and you ride on, the adaptions deliberately go to stupid and it runs like a pig

if you get a Ford Focus Mk3 ecoboom - when the £40 MAP sensor gives up - Ford deliberately puts injector 2 onto max output - and the car will miss like hell, and stink cabin out till no owner drives on - all perfectly normal - and BMW did the same sort of trick on the GS

its the exact failure mode dealers love - and the engineers build in at the factory - a nice big charge for diagnostics, an hour to fit a £250 CAT sensor and the owner happily pays to get his vehicle running properly - the reality they don't even need diagnostics, the parts is £15 quid and it takes 5 mins to fit - so 15 mins of workshop time and £400 quid instant profit

in a minute I guess you are going to tell me this USA Mkt Only Recall is me making it up - its to remove a NEW Metal bolt and refit the original Plastic rivet - ROW never got the fix - so owners will need to buy a new ABS unit soon enough

During assembly, an additional mounting bolt was installed on the ABS pressure modulator instead of a plastic rivet. This changes the vibration behavior of the ABS modulator. When the motorcycle is frequently used at very high engine speeds, vibration damage to the components could occur...

61 21 7 659 147 Plastic Rivet 1

 

[mpgscott]

Before you go spending money on people guesses here’s a simple test .
Disconnect the electrical plug/connection at the secondary/lower coils on both sides.
Then start the bike and see if it runs on both sides on just the main upper coils. .
If runs on only one side reconnect the lower secondary coil on the non running side and see if it improves .
If ok do the same in reverse, disconnect the lower etc etc .. If get what I mean - this will show which, if any, of the coil sticks has failed ..
if all ok then move on to testing the

Before you go spending money on people guesses here’s a simple test .
Disconnect the electrical plug/connection at the secondary/lower coils on both sides.
Then start the bike and see if it runs on both sides on just the main upper coils. .
If runs on only one side reconnect the lower secondary coil on the non running side and see if it improves .
If ok do the same in reverse, disconnect the lower etc etc .. If get what I mean - this will show which, if any, of the coil sticks has failed ..
if all ok then move on to testing the TPS.

Sorry to hijack this thread, I tried this test on mine and bike runs on just the lower coils. With both uppers disconnected no difference hear the video here. This good to say coil packs are knackered or do I need to go try with the lowers disconnected to prove?

I didn’t hear any noticeable difference if I disconnected one or both upper coils.

 

[DrFarkoff]

Did you not say that you had replaced the uppers in your other post??

If you take the plugs out are they VERY sooty?? Quite possibly with all the stopping and starting etc etc !

Take the bike out and get a decent ride to warm it up and give it a reasonable thrashing

Did you fill the tank up before parking it for winter?? There could also have Iffy fuel that has just "died"?

Best way to lay up a bike is either an empty tank or a near as possible full tank!

AND / OR fuel stabiliser additive

 

[mpgscott]

I just went and tried with lowers disconnected and think I have narrowed it down to one upper coil pack.

Is it best to swap out in pairs?

 

[landmarkjohn]

Is it best to swap out in pairs?

I would as a form a preventative maintenance. Coil packs can break down and degrade over time.

We had a BMW 3 series in the family and we replaced each coil pack individually at breakdown, a real PITA. If I had known then what I know now I would have replaced all 4 and plugs at the same time. Being a 4 cylinder you could only barely limp to a garage for repair if away from home.

I have a 6 cylinder BMW car and the two inner coil packs are the ones that break down (hottest?). Maybe after 70-80 K miles. Now I replace all 6 coil packs at a time. I have had the car since 40K miles and now on 230K miles so I kinda know the behaviour.

So if you can stretch to replacing the pair do it. Very difficult to judge how much time left on a coil, bit like a plug.