Red deposits on Lambda Probes

Betty Swollocks

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My bike is a 2010 GSA TC. I had the same occasional intermittent stalling problem when downshifting. Only happens about once a day if at all, but also a very occasional stutter when I try to blip the throttle in neutral, and always only when bike is well and truely warmed up.
This stalling problem is well documented throughout this site and I've taken advice from all the available posts.

A year ago the bike had cat removed then was re-mapped by a guy in Dublin....( Hilltop was too far from Northern Ireland).
After the remap I fitted fancy iridium plugs.
Remap went a bit wrong.... bike began running mega rich (i.e. mpg dropped to about 32 ) I was committed to a big Euro trip and it was about 3500 miles before I got the bike back onto the rolling road for the fuelling to be sorted. Now back up at 50+ mpg and feels mega fast and well sorted.
BUT the occassional stall was still an annoying trait with the bike.

Oil change and new air filter a couple of weeks ago, read here that the fault may be a possible failing coil stick, so I borrowed a 2013 TC and tested mine with it's coil sticks over a couple of days. No stall, but still the occassional stutter on blipping the throttle. I'm convinced my coils are ok and the problem is something else.

Not wanting to shell out for 2 lambda probes, otherwise known as oxygen sensors, but I'm convinced the mega rich fuelling for 3500 miles has fouled something up in the bike, I order a pair of 2nd hand ones from an 8K mile bike. Also decide to bin the new fancy plugs and go back to a new standard set spark plugs.

All fitted last night and bike running well..... but it always has done, just an occasional stall or stutter was all I ever experienced. It will be later in the week before I get to go for a long run on the bike and might take a few runs to be sure if the problem is away. I also hear the stepper motors (?) might need reset with a GS-911 and throttle sync to finish it all off, so I'm gonna chase that up this week too. Not sure what stepper motors are, but will get it done non the less.

Anyway, I was a bit shocked when I removed the lambda probes.... both are sooted near the thread, consistent with a bike running too rich I assume???
But the lower end of both are a strange red colour, almost like the colour of that red oxide paint. (left is the old probe and right is the replacement 8K mile probe)

The only other thing I have done with the bike is as follows..... knowing the TC is designed to run on 98 RON super unleaded, which is not available in Northern Ireland, on about 50% of the fills I've added 97 RON and on the others, I have added 95 RON plus the recommended amount of Millers Petrol Power Eco Max, which claims to increase power & mpg, reduce emissions,cleans injectors & adds up to 2 octane numbers.... the last one being my reason for adding the stuff. I don't really think a few mills of this is turning the probes red :nenau

I'm an amateur tinkerer who gets satisfaction fom having a go myself, but has no technical knowledge. What's the thoughts on the discolouration of the probes?

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IMG_4550_zpszyvgw15i.png
 
Handy reference page, Angus. Would agree, forget the snake oil.
If you're going to bugger about with it, do one thing at a time. Makes it easier to identify where you've gone wrong.
My TC is running like a dream with my AF-XiED units...:augie
 
Have the throttle bodies synched and to correct rpm. Disconnect stepper motors at idle. Rpm should not change
 
Angus, thanks for that link.... I googled it a few times and also couldn't see anything regarding red deposits until you posted.

Comberjohn..... the snake oil is no longer in my favour.... it's being re-distributed to another worth while cause. The bike has always had this fault... no... trait.

Sot1200, a pal on this forum who is local has recently acquired the kit to sync the throttle bodies and I see that being done this week if he's free :D I had a discussion with the guru Dr Fark earlier.... he explained the stepper motor thing to me, but my goldfish retention of information syndrome has kicked in and I still have no idea what they do, how to disconnect them or ........... why I am typing this.
Seriously, I thought I needed a GS-911 to do something with them, but maybe not.... I take it I just need to disconnect them and then balance the throttles well and it should be all good?

One last thing, I have also removed the flapper valve on my TC.... I really don't think this is the cause of the fault.

I honestly believe I have probably the best sorted bike in Northern Ireland. I've had several GSs. Without being modest, I know my bikes. Most people would never notice this and it rarely happens on an otherwise perfect bike. BUT, I am seeking perfection and I know there are plenty on here who have the technical knkowhow to help me make it the perfect bike.

PS.... the 2 photos are of the different probes. First photo is left probe beside the 2nd hand replacement and second photo is of right probe with 2nd hand replacement.
 
My view is that even though the idle is electronically controlled it does not respond to quick changes such as blipping throttle or openning it abruptly so have the throttle bodies synched and the stepper motors reset with a GS 911 and you should be ok. A quick search here will show you what to do and where to find things
 
I set my throttle bodies with a Twinmax box. In spite of all the shite spouted about these things it did the job fine. Disconnect the stepper motors and connect the device. The hardest job was starting the bike as it had no ability to tick over.

Result was an engine that ran more smoothly at low throttles but otherwise no performance effect that I could detect.

Back to the pink sensors -
Are you running posh petrol?
Are you using Redex snake oil?
Have you used a spare fuel can that previously carried pink 2 stroke for the hedge cutter?
 
My view is that even though the idle is electronically controlled it does not respond to quick changes such as blipping throttle or openning it abruptly so have the throttle bodies synched and the stepper motors reset with a GS 911 and you should be ok. A quick search here will show you what to do and where to find things
You're the second person to tell me about the blipping...... I have only been doing it to try to induce the stutter , because I'm trying to see if it's cured. I won't be doing that any more...





I set my throttle bodies with a Twinmax box. In spite of all the shite spouted about these things it did the job fine. Disconnect the stepper motors and connect the device. The hardest job was starting the bike as it had no ability to tick over.

Result was an engine that ran more smoothly at low throttles but otherwise no performance effect that I could detect.

Back to the pink sensors -
Are you running posh petrol?
Are you using Redex snake oil?
Have you used a spare fuel can that previously carried pink 2 stroke for the hedge cutter?


I've no access to a GS911, even though I hoped to buy a half share in one. Will def try disconnecting the steppers..... If I can find how to do it.
Hutchy is going to balance the throttle bodies soon I hope.
As for the fuel... I mentioned at the end of the original post, no access to posh fuel. 50% of the time it is 97 RON, the rest is 95 with some Millers Petrol
Power Eco Max.... It claims to add two octane numbers.... I saw it as being an octane booster. But I'm only now considering it as some sort of fuel system cleaner.... Not my reason for using it.
 
The red is a rusty deposit is from severe overheating burning the coating off ,There is a lot of water in the exhaust gasses,,there may be damage to the sensors, ,
This is likely to be from the previous overfuellling, if both sides are even fitting new ones may stay clean and greyish, oily additives often leave light brown deposits, fuel grade wouldn't cause it,
It would be worth checking the fuel trim in live data, especially raw voltages, using a gs 911, the lambda sensors only trim fuelling at idle and cruise on light throttle,
as you say it runs well now and good fuel mileage with plenty of power its unlikely to be major, , tracing a misfire or idle fuel trim is easier if you can plug in with diagnostics,
Roamer
 
The stutter from a blipped throttle or a stall could likely be caused by an exhaust flap which isn't keeping up with your blip

I took mine out and put in a dia63mm x 70mm tube and it runs fine without it.
 
The steppers have an electrical connector. Just unplug while ignition is off. The steppers park when the ignition is turned off. Unplugging prevents them unparking.

The engine will struggle to start so do the job at full running temperature. You will need to catch it on the throttle. If you are using balance gauges or a TwinMax type tool you simply need to keep it running but not revving madly. I ran the bike with the tool attached. The "in use" balance was ever so slightly out, but easily tweaked on the throttle cables.

If the sensors got sooted up, the burning off process (after mixture corrected) could have over-heated them. Mine were usually white suggesting they ran very weak. I currently use a Power Commander so the bike is run open loop. I have plugs in the O2 sensor pockets.
 
My bike is now sorted :chickendance:chickendance

It's taken at least two years but has finally happened. I love the bike, it's just had that little stutter and occasional fault which is now cured ( I think )

Sorry for repeating myself, but it had the fault many have reported on here, when hot and slowing down on motorway off slip etc, it will stall because the idle drops below tick over when dropping from 3rd to 2nd. Also, it'll occasionally stutter when blipping in neutral ( yes guys I know the boxer doesn't like this so I am trying not to do it any more)

Previously the custom re-map had ended up running mega rich. This lasted for 3500 miles as I was away in Europe, but has since been re-done and is now spot on.
Coil sticks swapped for a pal's fresh good ones to see if this was the cause. No difference.

So I picked up 2 second hand oxygen sensors from an 8K mileage bike and swapped for mine which were red, probably after getting sooted up after the too rich re-map, then being cleaned with a fuel additive or being burnt off in the hot exhaust gas after the rich settings were corrected.

The bike was definitely a good bit better day before yesterday. I couldn't get it to stutter or stall. I did a fast motorway run (I'm embarrassed to say), but on the sat nav it was a few mile an hour quicker than the top score which has been on it for over a year.
But it still felt like it was surging or hunting at higher revs and under strain.

Yesterday Hutchy called and did a throttle body balance for a cup of tea and a few biscuits.

This morning was the test. Mrs Swollocks joined us as pillion for the first time in 18 months, so speed wasn't going to feature.
But the bike is now definitely sorted. Yesterday's surging and hunting is gone.

I still just need to try a fast motorway run solo to give a final assessment.

But I would say the coil sticks are fine.

Oxygen sensors have cured the occasional stalling and stuttering.

Throttle body sync has removed the agricultural feel and made the GSA more like a sewing machine than a tractor.

After lunch we bimbled along the coast road home at 50 - 60 mph, followed with a bit of town work. Two up, at over 30 stone ��

Bike returned 65mpg, but the fuelling is ultra smooth....... Definitely a well sorted bike.

Will report on here after I stretch its legs on the motorway.
 
Who did the remap for you??

Sent using a Jedi mind trick!

Gary Donohue, Santry Dublin. (Think it is mototune.ie)

Top bloke. He re-did the job as soon as I pointed out the bike had started running rich.

No idea why it happened, but he stood over his work and had me down a few days after I told him and he re-did the custom map.

I'm tempted to get the bike back on the rolling road to see what it's putting out now I've sorted the oxygen sensors and balanced the throttle bodies.
 
My bike is now sorted :chickendance:chickendance

It's taken at least two years but has finally happened. I love the bike, it's just had that little stutter and occasional fault which is now cured ( I think )

Sorry for repeating myself, but it had the fault many have reported on here, when hot and slowing down on motorway off slip etc, it will stall because the idle drops below tick over when dropping from 3rd to 2nd. Also, it'll occasionally stutter when blipping in neutral ( yes guys I know the boxer doesn't like this so I am trying not to do it any more)

Previously the custom re-map had ended up running mega rich. This lasted for 3500 miles as I was away in Europe, but has since been re-done and is now spot on.
Coil sticks swapped for a pal's fresh good ones to see if this was the cause. No difference.

So I picked up 2 second hand oxygen sensors from an 8K mileage bike and swapped for mine which were red, probably after getting sooted up after the too rich re-map, then being cleaned with a fuel additive or being burnt off in the hot exhaust gas after the rich settings were corrected.

The bike was definitely a good bit better day before yesterday. I couldn't get it to stutter or stall. I did a fast motorway run (I'm embarrassed to say), but on the sat nav it was a few mile an hour quicker than the top score which has been on it for over a year.
But it still felt like it was surging or hunting at higher revs and under strain.

Yesterday Hutchy called and did a throttle body balance for a cup of tea and a few biscuits.

This morning was the test. Mrs Swollocks joined us as pillion for the first time in 18 months, so speed wasn't going to feature.
But the bike is now definitely sorted. Yesterday's surging and hunting is gone.

I still just need to try a fast motorway run solo to give a final assessment.

But I would say the coil sticks are fine.

Oxygen sensors have cured the occasional stalling and stuttering.

Throttle body sync has removed the agricultural feel and made the GSA more like a sewing machine than a tractor.

After lunch we bimbled along the coast road home at 50 - 60 mph, followed with a bit of town work. Two up, at over 30 stone ��

Bike returned 65mpg, but the fuelling is ultra smooth....... Definitely a well sorted bike.

Will report on here after I stretch its legs on the motorway.

3 biscuits to be precise oh and a free lunch today ☺, although sneaking to the bar to pay the bill isn't cricket old bean .....but myself and Mrs H thank you.

ref the fueling, are you now going to stop pissing around with it ?😉



Sent from my SM-T230 using Tapatalk
 
3 biscuits to be precise oh and a free lunch today ☺, although sneaking to the bar to pay the bill isn't cricket old bean .....but myself and Mrs H thank you.

ref the fueling, are you now going to stop pissing around with it ?��



Sent from my SM-T230 using Tapatalk
No more pissing around.

But I trust you will agree the now well sorted 1200 GSA Hexhead is indeed far superior to your very nice 1150.

My final task ended today with a phonecall to the guru, otherwise known as the Tunneruk of this parish. He has recommended a bespoke colour change befitting the extremely well sorted Hexhead and it will all be sorted in June.

Roll on the summer. And next day out we will swap bikes, just so I can reminisce my R1150GSA SE and you can experience perfection!

Did I tell you I retired this week? 😊
 


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