I've not got 34 mins, can you summaries it for us? Cheers
RISE NOW AND BE A NATION AGAIN !
- Thread starter ~Stef~
- Start date
I've not got 34 mins, can you summaries it for us? Cheers
Deleted account 210516001
Registered user
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2006
- Messages
- 5,306
- Reaction score
- 1
Only if he can find a summary to cut and paste!!
I'm probably in the middle group, but it will be a yes from me, maybe the middle group need to consider our country and our people before themselves? Its time to go, and that is no way a slur on our big neighbours whom I have got great respect for. Just time for this wee country of ours to dance to its own drum beat
Sorry not quite correct there. See post n/o 11. For a yes voter with some means but no rose coloured spectacles in terms of what it might mean for me personally in ££ terms .This is such an important point in our counties history that to consider the issue in financial terms to me seems to demean the issue.
Who in their right mind would not seek Democratic control over their own destiny
I am always proud when overseas to identify myself as Scot.
Given our own decisions to make ,i think I will still be proud to be a Scot
My background is as a medium size biz owner, manager who has worked between minimum office time ,and almost all on the shop floor with what the politicians often call the ORDINARY hard working people.
Mostly when it comes to deciding what's right and what's wrong ,the politicians could take lessons from the ordinary people
So IMHO lets have proper democracy and see where it goes ,regardless of selfish personal £££ in the short term
Deleted account 210516001
Registered user
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2006
- Messages
- 5,306
- Reaction score
- 1
I'm probably in the middle group, but it will be a yes from me, maybe the middle group need to consider our country and our people before themselves? Its time to go, and that is no way a slur on our big neighbours whom I have got great respect for. Just time for this wee country of ours to dance to its own drum beat
That is very noble minded of you but I am not sure what you mean. I understand what our country is but who do you mean by our people? Is it the people who currently have jobs in Govan building UK warships that will be out of a job or is the the unemployable junkie who wants free child care while they go out and find something to top up their methadone? The fact is our people are like every other country, so diverse that it is impossible to make a judgement about what is best for all of them. In every scenario there will be winners and losers and I can only decide what I think is best for me. If you were asking me to take a chance on a Scotland with a right leaning government who would bear down on public spending and keep taxes to a minimum I would be delighted to vote for independence but the fact is you are asking me to vote for a guaranteed socialist future either under the SNP or more likely labour. Either government will borrow and tax us to fund their egalitarian ideas and we will end up in the same mess that Gordon Brown and his lot left us in then they were in power. However Scotland will not have the same credit history as the UK and borrowing to plug the gap will be expensive. There will be no Scottish central bank to print money to bail us out and we will end up like Iceland except we won't have our fishing industry to fall back on because we will be in the EU and have to stick to their limits. Eventually Scots would see sense and vote for a more prudent government but I don't think I will live that long.
I would like to vote with my heart but I have lived under too long with our political system so I will vote with my head.
Originally Posted by Bennysdad
You are wrong. There are many who support the Yes position but they have not yet mastered the cut and thrust, sorry paste, of political discussion. They want to vote yes because they want "Freeedom" like in the movie. That is fine so long as you don't mind the financial entrails being ripped out of your country as a result. In my opinion the yes camp is made up of those who are struggling financially now and have nothing to lose by voting yes in the hope that the SNP vision of a more equal Scotland means cash being taken from those who have it and given to those who have not. In addition the well off chattering classes can afford to take a punt on the Yes vote safe in the knowledge that they can protect their assets by moving them out of reach.
The middle group of working Scots who are comfortably off, but not rich, with a a few pounds in the bank and a mortgage sensibly don't want to risk their financial future in terms of devaluation of their savings, higher mortgage rates and higher taxes that they can't afford a clever accountant to dodge. As with all socialist governments this is the group who bear the pain of creating "a more equal society" by having their living standards dragged down towards those of the poorest members. Since the middle group is the majority in voting terms the NO vote is likely to win.
Sorry not quite correct there. See post n/o 11. For a yes voter with some means but no rose coloured spectacles in terms of what it might mean for me personally in ££ terms .This is such an important point in our counties history that to consider the issue in financial terms to me seems to demean the issue.
Who in their right mind would not seek Democratic control over their own destiny
I am always proud when overseas to identify myself as Scot.
Given our own decisions to make ,i think I will still be proud to be a Scot
My background is as a medium size biz owner, manager who has worked between minimum office time ,and almost all on the shop floor with what the politicians often call the ORDINARY hard working people.
Mostly when it comes to deciding what's right and what's wrong ,the politicians could take lessons from the ordinary people
So IMHO lets have proper democracy and see where it goes ,regardless of selfish personal £££ in the short term
You are wrong. There are many who support the Yes position but they have not yet mastered the cut and thrust, sorry paste, of political discussion. They want to vote yes because they want "Freeedom" like in the movie. That is fine so long as you don't mind the financial entrails being ripped out of your country as a result. In my opinion the yes camp is made up of those who are struggling financially now and have nothing to lose by voting yes in the hope that the SNP vision of a more equal Scotland means cash being taken from those who have it and given to those who have not. In addition the well off chattering classes can afford to take a punt on the Yes vote safe in the knowledge that they can protect their assets by moving them out of reach.
The middle group of working Scots who are comfortably off, but not rich, with a a few pounds in the bank and a mortgage sensibly don't want to risk their financial future in terms of devaluation of their savings, higher mortgage rates and higher taxes that they can't afford a clever accountant to dodge. As with all socialist governments this is the group who bear the pain of creating "a more equal society" by having their living standards dragged down towards those of the poorest members. Since the middle group is the majority in voting terms the NO vote is likely to win.
Sorry not quite correct there. See post n/o 11. For a yes voter with some means but no rose coloured spectacles in terms of what it might mean for me personally in ££ terms .This is such an important point in our counties history that to consider the issue in financial terms to me seems to demean the issue.
Who in their right mind would not seek Democratic control over their own destiny
I am always proud when overseas to identify myself as Scot.
Given our own decisions to make ,i think I will still be proud to be a Scot
My background is as a medium size biz owner, manager who has worked between minimum office time ,and almost all on the shop floor with what the politicians often call the ORDINARY hard working people.
Mostly when it comes to deciding what's right and what's wrong ,the politicians could take lessons from the ordinary people
So IMHO lets have proper democracy and see where it goes ,regardless of selfish personal £££ in the short term
Deleted account 210516001
Registered user
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2006
- Messages
- 5,306
- Reaction score
- 1
As you say Boatman. You are voting with your heart and with the clear understanding that the decision might cost you. I admire you for it. I will continue to vote for what I think will be best for me in the short term ie the next 15 years because that is probably all the time I have left to enjoy the fruits of a lifetime of work. I base my supposition that this will be the position of the majority in my circumstances on the survey that showed only 15% of people would be prepared to vote for independence if it was going to leave them £500 poorer.
Like you say Scotland was not always left wing dominated and you may live long enough to see the time when an independent Scotland is once again free from the grip of socialist ideology that seeks to dictate how my income should be disposed of for the greater good. It will indeed be a great country but I won't live long enough to see it. You probably have 5 years of SNP rule ahead and when that all goes wrong 2 parliaments of Labour rule after that before the electorate sees the light.
Like you say Scotland was not always left wing dominated and you may live long enough to see the time when an independent Scotland is once again free from the grip of socialist ideology that seeks to dictate how my income should be disposed of for the greater good. It will indeed be a great country but I won't live long enough to see it. You probably have 5 years of SNP rule ahead and when that all goes wrong 2 parliaments of Labour rule after that before the electorate sees the light.
Aye you,r a thinking man right enough!
I recon that your medium term forecast is not far off SPOT on as to how it will play out.
It would appear to be that if the Scottish element of the vote is removed there is not likely to be any more socialist government in England.
That in in it,s self is going to make possibly, for different politics after a period of time .If there is a more business and wealth generating culture prevailing for long enough south of the border, and ,IF it does make the population generally better off
(As I believe it would). Then the people of this nation will not be all that very long in casting there gaze south ,and asking the HARD questions of our elected politicians
BUT it is a long game and like you I will not see the turn of it
Never the less I consider that we owe it to those who come after us to
Give them the chance, after all all what are we really speculating beyond some
Money, People have had to pay a lot more in the past to gain self determination
I consider it a certainty that the Scottish populace would take a very great interest in their own politics if we get to stand or fall by our own decisions
I recon that your medium term forecast is not far off SPOT on as to how it will play out.
It would appear to be that if the Scottish element of the vote is removed there is not likely to be any more socialist government in England.
That in in it,s self is going to make possibly, for different politics after a period of time .If there is a more business and wealth generating culture prevailing for long enough south of the border, and ,IF it does make the population generally better off
(As I believe it would). Then the people of this nation will not be all that very long in casting there gaze south ,and asking the HARD questions of our elected politicians
BUT it is a long game and like you I will not see the turn of it
Never the less I consider that we owe it to those who come after us to
Give them the chance, after all all what are we really speculating beyond some
Money, People have had to pay a lot more in the past to gain self determination
I consider it a certainty that the Scottish populace would take a very great interest in their own politics if we get to stand or fall by our own decisions
Rational arguments 
For me, one of the huge benefits would be the expectation that government would be more accountable in a separate Scotland. We are now no longer being served by the governnment and civil service - the tail is now wagging the dog.
Al
For me, one of the huge benefits would be the expectation that government would be more accountable in a separate Scotland. We are now no longer being served by the governnment and civil service - the tail is now wagging the dog.
Al
Toddy
Registered user
Deleted account Cooperman
Registered user
.....
Is this an excerpt from the Tory rule book?
Scotland has a population of about say 4.5 million. About as many people who probably commute on a bus every day in London.
So in context we are not really a big country to manage. In fact the best part of 3 million are concentrated in the central belt, so no different to Englandshire layout with the rest dispersed in more remoter areas who need maybe different needs / priorities.
Now you would think that being independent we could readily manage that number and their needs.
Have we the politicians to do this, I think yes, but unfortuneatly the competent ones are dispersed between the parties, so some form of dare I say coalition will be required to govern Scotland.
Getting independence is just a first step, but the subsequent steps (the key steps) will need to be different to what we have done in the past to run our new government.
So in context we are not really a big country to manage. In fact the best part of 3 million are concentrated in the central belt, so no different to Englandshire layout with the rest dispersed in more remoter areas who need maybe different needs / priorities.
Now you would think that being independent we could readily manage that number and their needs.
Have we the politicians to do this, I think yes, but unfortuneatly the competent ones are dispersed between the parties, so some form of dare I say coalition will be required to govern Scotland.
Getting independence is just a first step, but the subsequent steps (the key steps) will need to be different to what we have done in the past to run our new government.
All Scottish governments prior to the current one have been coalitions. The PR system adopted by the Scottish Parliament was specifically designed to prevent domination by a single party. (That is, the Scottish Labour Party!). The current SNP majority is an aberration caused mainly by the voting machine shambles of the last election, IMO.
I've not read of any proposal to change the voting system, so it's highly likely that governments after any possible YES vote in September will be coalitions.
wully
Registered user
I have voted once before, can't remember why I decided to on that occasion.
I don't see the point as none of the lying, cheating scum politicians will do what the electorate want.
The only reason I can see to vote for independence is that we will get what we vote for in Scotland, not what England votes for as they out number us 10 to 1. ( roughly)
So, we get our own useless, lying, cheating scum who will surely fuck up like they always do. They imbiciles don't even know what they are going to do if we vote 'yes'
Or maybe they do and haven't told us, or I haven't listened. It would only be lies anyway.
Fuck 'em.
I don't see the point as none of the lying, cheating scum politicians will do what the electorate want.
The only reason I can see to vote for independence is that we will get what we vote for in Scotland, not what England votes for as they out number us 10 to 1. ( roughly)
So, we get our own useless, lying, cheating scum who will surely fuck up like they always do. They imbiciles don't even know what they are going to do if we vote 'yes'
Or maybe they do and haven't told us, or I haven't listened. It would only be lies anyway.
Fuck 'em.
I keep coming into the Scottish Section looking for something mildly interesting. And most days all that's on offer is this shit...
At least - it's our shit................
If we get independance - do we want to take all our shit with us?
Will some rUK politician claim that most of the shit belongs to them?
Will NATO demand that we maintain a credible stock of shit - in an independant Scotland?
This shit's important!
Al
Bendy toy
Registered user
Chances are all the important stuff will still be handled by Westminster & Scotland gets the worst of all world's.
If they go they should take their own share of liabilities and debts along with what's left of North Sea oil. They should not expect England & Wales to be paying anything.
Will that happen? Ask the boring red fish called Alex.
If they go they should take their own share of liabilities and debts along with what's left of North Sea oil. They should not expect England & Wales to be paying anything.
Will that happen? Ask the boring red fish called Alex.
morty
Registered user
Toddy watched your man swinney on Question Time the other day.what a hapless,clueless question dodging arsehole.75% of scotland for NO at last poll.over 10,000 aberdeenshire 16year olds polled and over 70% vote NO.remember to kick your own arse on the way out as you close the door.thanks.
Similar threads
