So how reliable is the 1200 really?

[KevinW]

Hi David, I didn't notice you'd posted earlier as I was just reading the responses. Sorry, I'd have said "Hello" if I had. So, somewhat belatedly, it's nice to hear from you. Hope you are well and the weather is better there than here.

Oh the irony! There I am, saying I've not had many problems with my 1200 and that I'd buy another, when what happens today? Dead battery. I was all set to go and have goodies I've just bought fitted, but now I have a parrot bike....dead. I think it might be because I switched the ignition on and off very quickly yesterday, and the computer's gone haywire. My fault entirely.

At the risk of upsetting some of the sycophants (and if I'm honest I don't give a fig if I do) that's the sort of thing that concerns me. You should be able to do that without screwing things up, shouldn't you? I'm quite certain I could go outside to the garage and turn the ignition on and off quickly, several times, on any of the bikes sitting in there and it wouldn't bother them at all.

I still anticipate ending up with one as they're just doesn't seem to be anything else better suited to our needs/wants but...

Kevin

 

[Engineer]

So how reliable is the 1200 really?

Haven't read very post here - but defining reliability and then deciding on how it's should be measured might actually be more useful than everyone posting a lot of purely subjective comments - doncha think?

 

[KevinW]

So how reliable is the 1200 really?

Haven't read very post here - but defining reliability and then deciding on how it's should be measured might actually be more useful than everyone posting a lot of purely subjective comments - doncha think?

Er, no.

Kevin

 

[Engineer]

Er, no.

Kevin

Well OK, here you go then, mine's been fine and never failed to function - so therefore the 1200 is reliable - fact.

I have known a couple of people with 1150s and they are always having problems - so 1150s are unreliable - fact.

 

[Paul Wakefield]

IMHO, unless you are very unlucky, there are only 2 show stoppers. The ring antenna (EWS). This seems to have been solved by the latest part which leaves the Fuel Pump Controller. Should have been solved but doesn't seem to have been (though I get the impression there have been less reports about it recently - maybe just lower winter mileage or maybe the latest part is better).

Shouldn't happen but it does. Still an occurrence for the minority rather than majority I think. On a long trip, I borrow a spare from my dealer. There are also workarounds on this site.

Is it perfect? - No. Should it be better? Probably. Is it reliable enough? It is for me but it's your call.

 

[red1]

Let's look at this from a purely factual and analytical view.

1. There have been some serious failures within the research, development and testing process which led up to the launch of the R1200GS in 2005. These included the shaft dive, fuel system and ignition system.
2. There have been build quality problems mainly in the corrosion of various parts of the motorcycle.
3. BMW should be severely censured for taking 4 years to affact a cure on some of these problems, especially as they promote the model on quality, being "unstoppable" and charge a premium price over other manufacturers.
4. Those that defend BMW by quoting that the numbers of machines sold will always highlight and magnify any problems should accept that although in the UK the R1200GS was probably the top seller month on month since launch, usually second top seller was the Honda Fireblade for which I have heard no major recurring problems.
5. It has to accepted that mileage has no bearing on reliability as there are lots of very low mileage models around which have had the same problems as high mileage bikes. This defeats the argument that the Fireblade does lower mileages and therefore the problems don't show up.
6. The shaft drive problems seem to have disappeared some time ago.
7. The EWS has been covered by a recall.
8. The fuel pump has been moved to a better position on latest models.
9. The fuel pump problem could still show up on pre '08 models as it is postion not mechanics/electrics that causes this problem.
10. BMW created an brilliant concept with the R1200GS. It is one of the best multi-purpose machines available in the world.
11. I bought an 07 ADV a couple of weeks ago. I'm loving every minute ..... and I've got my fingers crossed.

 

[wilbjr21]

At the risk of upsetting some of the sycophants (and if I'm honest I don't give a fig if I do) that's the sort of thing that concerns me. You should be able to do that without screwing things up, shouldn't you? I'm quite certain I could go outside to the garage and turn the ignition on and off quickly, several times, on any of the bikes sitting in there and it wouldn't bother them at all.

There is a software upgrade that fixes this problem. So you can do this with a 1200 - should you so desire.

Where are the sycophants? I only see contented owners who are happy with their bike.

 

[wilbjr21]

9. The fuel pump problem could still show up on pre '08 models as it is postion not mechanics/electrics that causes this problem.

I don't quite agree with you here (although water has been the cause of many failures). I have seen a failure on a brand new bike - no corrosion on it.

11. I bought an 07 ADV a couple of weeks ago. I'm loving every minute ..... and I've got my fingers crossed.

The FPC position hasn't changed on the Adv model. The latest unit is black - maybe this helps.

 

[Mort]

I don't quite agree with you here (although water has been the cause of many failures). I have seen a failure on a brand new bike - no corrosion on it.



The FPC position hasn't changed on the Adv model. The latest unit is black - maybe this helps.

Do the black fpc's use more fuel as they must run hotter

see you tonight Bob?

 

[zoltan]

I am on my 4th 1200 ( 1 GSA & 3 RTs ) apart from some corrosion issues no problems .Each bike has done on average 10 k .
Every time I sold one and tried something different I went back to a 1200 . Just on the law of averages something should gone wrong but didn't , I feel let down...

 

[ExpatinIstanbul]

Hi David, I didn't notice you'd posted earlier as I was just reading the responses. Sorry, I'd have said "Hello" if I had. So, somewhat belatedly, it's nice to hear from you. Hope you are well and the weather is better there than here.



At the risk of upsetting some of the sycophants (and if I'm honest I don't give a fig if I do) that's the sort of thing that concerns me. You should be able to do that without screwing things up, shouldn't you? I'm quite certain I could go outside to the garage and turn the ignition on and off quickly, several times, on any of the bikes sitting in there and it wouldn't bother them at all.

I still anticipate ending up with one as they're just doesn't seem to be anything else better suited to our needs/wants but...

Kevin

Hi Kev,

All's well and good here. Happily, we're not enjoying UK like weather conditions.

I agree with you in that you should expect a bike to deal with turning an ignition on and off without problems. I also think the EWS and FPC problems should have been fixed much earlier and really shouldn't be issues on such a bike. Having said that, it's unlikely that a bike designed to do so much, and do it so well, would never have any glitches. I don't think it's right to compare the 1200 with the 1150 as they are so different, and never having ridden the 1150 I can't compare. What I would say is that the problems with the 1200 are easily fixed and once having been done, it becomes a great bike for pretty much everything. As far as comfort for Lynn is concerned, you need have no worries. All I did for my wife was to add the TT footpeg lowering kit and throw on an airhawk, she never complains of discomfort, even on 10 hour rides in 40c heat.

Get a 1200, have the EWS recall thingy done, get yourself a spare FPC or check out the work around thread on here somewhere, fit an Odyssey battery and you'll be laughing.

 

[KevinW]

Well OK, here you go then, mine's been fine and never failed to function - so therefore the 1200 is reliable - fact.

I have known a couple of people with 1150s and they are always having problems - so 1150s are unreliable - fact.

It is beginning to amaze me that I ask a fairly simple question to which I get very helpful responses from many people, both here and on the KTM forum, that some people have to be singularly unhelpful; I suppose it's just in their nature.

While my question on the KTM forum eventually dissolved into an argument between subscribers about how good the KTM is or isn't I did get some very helpful information there. Strangely it is only here, a forum that I consider to be one of the friendliest and most helpful around, that the helpful responses are interspersed with people who don't like the question and feel this peculiar urge to say so.

The bottom line is that I don't care if you don't like the question and I'm going to ignore any such future responses but let me try to help you - it was my question, I phrased it how I wanted to phrase it, I understand what it was I was asking and that, basically, is how people feel about their bikes - reliable, unreliable or somewhere in between, nearly all of the posts in this thread have been from people who understood what I was asking and have given me helpful responses that will help me make up my mind as to which bike I want to buy next. If you're not comfortable with that the answer is simple - go and ask your own question and don't read this thread.

Kevin

 

[KevinW]

IMHO, unless you are very unlucky, there are only 2 show stoppers. The ring antenna (EWS). This seems to have been solved by the latest part which leaves the Fuel Pump Controller. Should have been solved but doesn't seem to have been (though I get the impression there have been less reports about it recently - maybe just lower winter mileage or maybe the latest part is better).

Shouldn't happen but it does. Still an occurrence for the minority rather than majority I think. On a long trip, I borrow a spare from my dealer. There are also workarounds on this site.

Is it perfect? - No. Should it be better? Probably. Is it reliable enough? It is for me but it's your call.

I think it may be for us as well and your post sums up the responses nicely, thank you . There are also a lot of people here who have had more than one GS and most GS owners who have responded said they would buy another.

The only other query I have is there are seem to be a number of instances of flat batteries - is that likely to be caused by the EWS issue or something else?

Kevin

 

[KevinW]

Let's look at this from a purely factual and analytical view.

1. There have been some serious failures within the research, development and testing process which led up to the launch of the R1200GS in 2005. These included the shaft dive, fuel system and ignition system.
2. There have been build quality problems mainly in the corrosion of various parts of the motorcycle.
3. BMW should be severely censured for taking 4 years to affact a cure on some of these problems, especially as they promote the model on quality, being "unstoppable" and charge a premium price over other manufacturers.
4. Those that defend BMW by quoting that the numbers of machines sold will always highlight and magnify any problems should accept that although in the UK the R1200GS was probably the top seller month on month since launch, usually second top seller was the Honda Fireblade for which I have heard no major recurring problems.
5. It has to accepted that mileage has no bearing on reliability as there are lots of very low mileage models around which have had the same problems as high mileage bikes. This defeats the argument that the Fireblade does lower mileages and therefore the problems don't show up.
6. The shaft drive problems seem to have disappeared some time ago.
7. The EWS has been covered by a recall.
8. The fuel pump has been moved to a better position on latest models.
9. The fuel pump problem could still show up on pre '08 models as it is postion not mechanics/electrics that causes this problem.
10. BMW created an brilliant concept with the R1200GS. It is one of the best multi-purpose machines available in the world.
11. I bought an 07 ADV a couple of weeks ago. I'm loving every minute ..... and I've got my fingers crossed.

Another excellent summation, thank you.

Kevin

 

[KevinW]

[snip] Where are the sycophants? I only see contented owners who are happy with their bike.

Sorry, that obviously wasn't clear. I'm not talking about the people who have good stories to tell about their bikes, I'm talking about the people who are complaining because I had the temerity to ask the question or that other people post about problems they've had.

Kevin

 

[chad]

It is beginning to amaze me that I ask a fairly simple question to which I get very helpful responses from many people, both here and on the KTM forum, that some people have to be singularly unhelpful; I suppose it's just in their nature.

While my question on the KTM forum eventually dissolved into an argument between subscribers about how good the KTM is or isn't I did get some very helpful information there. Strangely it is only here, a forum that I consider to be one of the friendliest and most helpful around, that the helpful responses are interspersed with people who don't like the question and feel this peculiar urge to say so.

The bottom line is that I don't care if you don't like the question and I'm going to ignore any such future responses but let me try to help you - it was my question, I phrased it how I wanted to phrase it, I understand what it was I was asking and that, basically, is how people feel about their bikes - reliable, unreliable or somewhere in between, nearly all of the posts in this thread have been from people who understood what I was asking and have given me helpful responses that will help me make up my mind as to which bike I want to buy next. If you're not comfortable with that the answer is simple - go and ask your own question and don't read this thread.

Kevin

like every forum , sort the wheat from the chaf then form your own conclusion

then hopefully you will be happy with your choice, both the KTM and the GS are great bikes for different reasons and both have their issues.

good luck with your choice

 

[KevinW]

[snip] All I did for my wife was to add the TT footpeg lowering kit and throw on an airhawk, she never complains of discomfort, even on 10 hour rides in 40c heat.

Get a 1200, have the EWS recall thingy done, get yourself a spare FPC or check out the work around thread on here somewhere, fit an Odyssey battery and you'll be laughing.

Thanks David. It's good to know the pillion seat is comfortable as that is key (as you know, we used Air Hawks on our 'wander' and Lyn said that was the most comfortable she'd ever been on a bike).

Subject to test ride I'm fairly sure we will be following the advice in your last paragraph. Hopefully, we'll see you in Istanbul again in the not too distant future where we can mutually admire each other's bike. .

Now, who wants to buy a 1400GTR?!

Kevin

 

[Engineer]

It is beginning to amaze me that I ask a fairly simple question to which I get very helpful responses from many people, both here and on the KTM forum, that some people have to be singularly unhelpful; I suppose it's just in their nature.

While my question on the KTM forum eventually dissolved into an argument between subscribers about how good the KTM is or isn't I did get some very helpful information there. Strangely it is only here, a forum that I consider to be one of the friendliest and most helpful around, that the helpful responses are interspersed with people who don't like the question and feel this peculiar urge to say so.

The bottom line is that I don't care if you don't like the question and I'm going to ignore any such future responses but let me try to help you - it was my question, I phrased it how I wanted to phrase it, I understand what it was I was asking and that, basically, is how people feel about their bikes - reliable, unreliable or somewhere in between, nearly all of the posts in this thread have been from people who understood what I was asking and have given me helpful responses that will help me make up my mind as to which bike I want to buy next. If you're not comfortable with that the answer is simple - go and ask your own question and don't read this thread.

Kevin

My point is that a question like "Is the 1200 reliable" is NOT a simple question and perhaps that is the reason you cannot get a simple answer!

Unless one more carefully defines what it is that one is asking then all the answers are likely to be as subjective as mine!

My answer is simple, the 1200 IS reliable - but it has to be a subjective one doesn't it? and if you have read my previous responses they have been exactly that.

In summary, I have had no serious issues and the bike has never let me down, so I conclude that it is a reliable bike - not only is it reliable, it is a great bike, perhaps one of the best ever made - I will almost certainly buy another!

 

[KevinW]

My point is that a question like "Is the 1200 reliable" is NOT a simple question and perhaps that is the reason you cannot get a simple answer!

Unless one more carefully defines what it is that one is asking then all the answers are likely to be as subjective as mine!

My answer is simple, the 1200 IS reliable - but it has to be a subjective one doesn't it? and if you have read my previous responses they have been exactly that.

In summary, I have had no serious issues and the bike has never let me down, so I conclude that it is a reliable bike - not only is it reliable, it is a great bike, perhaps one of the best ever made - I will almost certainly buy another!

OK, one last try. I have had many, simple and very useful answers and they were exactly the type of answers I was looking for. I know they're subjective answers, just like yours is at the bottom of your post which is also useful, and that's all I was after. I'm not trying to run a technical project in which I agree all terms need to be defined, I'm just after an idea of how people feel about the reliability of their bikes.

Kevin

 

[chad]

OK, one last try. I have had many, simple and very useful answers and they were exactly the type of answers I was looking for. I know they're subjective answers, just like yours is at the bottom of your post which is also useful, and that's all I was after. I'm not trying to run a technical project in which I agree all terms need to be defined, I'm just after an idea of how people feel about the reliability of their bikes.

Kevin

a friend pete ,, lord vader of this parish has a 1200GSA he had issues with his final drive its been sorted they symptoms were easy to detect so the bike never left him stranded at the side of the road

. he has done the best part of 20k in the past year with no other issues at all

apart from a known problem thats easilly sorted under warranty the bike has been fantastic .

so yup they are reliable.

as with any mechanical object there is a percentage of risk that it will break.(this could start another thread on its own)

i suppose its the chance we take when we buy somthing

i suggest you buy it and enjoy it and if you keep it past the warranty period then extend that for peace of mind.


in short its a f@ckin good bike if a little pricey