Struggling with Basecamp?

[cookie]

As it takes more than 30 seconds for Basecamp to open I feel you exaggerate a little! If it came with a simple tutorial that showed how to create a route then you might have a point. As it is new users are just left to flounder. If it was supposed to improve on Mapsource doing this would be a start. If,as you say, users struggled with Mapsource why was ease of us not higher up the priorities? As you say the search facility is poor-far worse than the one in Mapsource. I tend to use a Laptop without a mouse and I find the method of dragging a route more difficult in Basecamp. As for the "more contemporary" filing, just how is that an improvement? Why can we not see this file structure without opening Basecamp?

I am sure that many of us who can use Mapsource, struggle or not, do find Basecamp awkward. From my point of view Basecamp offers me nothing I don't have already so explain to me why I should "put in effort to learn something different" when that something different offers nothing to me in return for this effort.

I know Basecamp works and if I were starting planning routes now rather than 13 years ago I would probably have used Basecamp. But as I have a system that does everything I need I have no incentive to learn another system. I salute those who have mastered Basecamp but I do feel some if its defenders are a little out of touch with the vast majority of casual users. Help them out by all means but pretending that Basecamp is user friendly won't win you many converts.

John

you're like a stuck record. we've read all that from you so many times. i just thought another view in the thread might be interesting. seems not, but i'm not letting that stop me

you think it's a good idea to stick with what you know. i get that, but what you're sticking with is a dead end. it's never going to be developed. it'll likely stop being compatible with newer devices.

If,as you say, users struggled with Mapsource why was ease of us not higher up the priorities?

i find it pretty easy to use, bar Search. i have no idea why garmin have never made that feature better. i suspect it is actually very capable, but it's so complicated that simple searches are too difficult.

As for the "more contemporary" filing, just how is that an improvement? Why can we not see this file structure without opening Basecamp?

the file structure is right there in lH sidebar. it's just not like the one you have in Windows 95. it does prevent duplication and is easily searchable. if you wanted to use a waypoint from another route in mapsource, you'd need to open that route. in basecamp. it's right there, in the sidebar.

As it takes more than 30 seconds for Basecamp to open I feel you exaggerate a little!

yes, you do have to open basecamp. it takes under 9 seconds - i timed it.

I tend to use a Laptop without a mouse and I find the method of dragging a route more difficult in Basecamp.


i'm pretty sure the same method of dragging a route was used in mapsource. i use a mouse.

From my point of view Basecamp offers me nothing I don't have already so explain to me why I should "put in effort to learn something different" when that something different offers nothing to me in return for this effort.

i never suggested you put in any effort, i merely pointed out that some people don't want to. do whatever you like. i don't care about converts. like i said - i'm just offering an alternative view, like - why put any effort into learning a program that is obsolete and will probably stop working in the future?

 

[Tomcat]

I've just made an attempt at creating a route from Waypoints in Basecamp.
Basecamp seems to ignore the order in which the waypoints are added and randomly created a route, joining the waypoints up as it sees fit. Probably as per the settings.
Is this normal? Do I then have to edit to route to get all the waypoints in the correct order. If I had a hundred or so I'd be at it all day!

You can order the waypoints as you wish - open 'route properties', click on the '+' sign to add waypoints. If you have a lot of them in the route you can add in the order you want by clicking on the relevant point in the list, and then click '+'. You can ro-order with the up down arrows. Mapsource works in exactly the same way.
BTW, creating a route with hundreds of waypoints is not efficient, and when you run the route, you will have to visit each waypoint, or use the 'skip' function to avoid it (same applies to Mapsource created routes too). The quickest way is to place a waypoint at the start and end of your route, get the program to calculate the fastest route between these two points and then use the drag and drop route tool to get it to follow the roads you want.
Final point - use a mouse. If you try using a touchscreen or a trackpads to create routes you'll have real difficulty in selecting minor roads unless you are zoomed right in. Basecamp works really well with a scroll wheel mouse - scroll to zoom in or out, Alt+L click to drag and drop the route. I suspect that a lot of problems that folk have is that they will try to create a route with the map zoomed out, and worse still will try to use a trackpad or touchscreen. You can do this is you only want to follow major roads but it ain't my idea of route planning...

 

[The Grey One]

Dear Cookie. I was also putting an alternative view in a thread about Basecamp. I think there is room for all, don't you?

You are right that Basecamp opens quickly but only if you have used it recently. If you have not it takes about 40 seconds, I suspect because it is checking for updates. Mapsource always opens very quickly and it doesn't make me wait while it downloads a map from the device that is already on the PC!

I understand Mapsource is not being developed but since is does what I need that is irrelevant. It might well be incompatible with future devices and that is why I keep Basecamp up to date and use it from time to time. Right now Mapsource works with all the current devices. My 390 was bought last year and I would expect it to last at least 5 years so the possible need to use another system is still some way off.

The method of dragging a route is not a simple as in Mapsource although I accept it probable isn't an issue using a mouse.

I accept the point about waypoints being more easily available in Basecamp. No system is perfect

As for putting effort into a program they will become obsolete, the point is I already know how to use it so there is no current effort required. Don't forget that Basecamp itself will one day be replaced. If Garmin follow the pattern and re invent the wheel again any effort put into learning Basecamp wont help with its replacement either.

Lastly,I thank you for your permission to continue using a system of my choice. Like you I feel people should be free to both use and comment on any system they might use.

John

 

[The Grey One]

of course if you add waypoints to a created route it will put them in order along said route, in other words open mapsorce and randomly left click and then right click add waypoint and do this without a route being present and you will of course get a random list of waypoints in not the order you added them

You must have a different version to mine then. I have just tried it to check, waypoints are added one after the other and remain in the order they were put.


John

 

[leedude03]

You must have a different version to mine then. I have just tried it to check, waypoints are added one after the other and remain in the order they were put.


John

dont know what you are doing different to me or me to you, but using this as an example. i first entered atherstone as first waypoint and then moreton in the marsh as my second and then daventry last that was in the order i wanted to go in, and base camp came back with this, now its easy enough to re order them, but as you can see they do not follow the order of entry.

 

[leedude03]

You can order the waypoints as you wish - open 'route properties', click on the '+' sign to add waypoints. If you have a lot of them in the route you can add in the order you want by clicking on the relevant point in the list, and then click '+'. You can ro-order with the up down arrows. Mapsource works in exactly the same way.
BTW, creating a route with hundreds of waypoints is not efficient, and when you run the route, you will have to visit each waypoint, or use the 'skip' function to avoid it (same applies to Mapsource created routes too). The quickest way is to place a waypoint at the start and end of your route, get the program to calculate the fastest route between these two points and then use the drag and drop route tool to get it to follow the roads you want.
Final point - use a mouse. If you try using a touchscreen or a trackpads to create routes you'll have real difficulty in selecting minor roads unless you are zoomed right in. Basecamp works really well with a scroll wheel mouse - scroll to zoom in or out, Alt+L click to drag and drop the route. I suspect that a lot of problems that folk have is that they will try to create a route with the map zoomed out, and worse still will try to use a trackpad or touchscreen. You can do this is you only want to follow major roads but it ain't my idea of route planning...

as tomcat has said you can indeed use this method to reorganize your waypoints and this way is a much simpler way, but if like myself you like to save your waypoints as a favourite so you can remeber them for future reference, i tend to number and name them as i go along. this way i can recall them at any time.

 

[leedude03]

Quote cookie (i should mention how hard it was for some people to grasp mapsource though. the old GS Club used to do hands on workshops on mapsource, and i even helped at at least one of them, so i know it was not straightforward. maybe having struggled with mapsource, some people are reluctant to put in the effort to learn something slightly different.) I remember when mapsource came out and lots of people were having major trauma trying to use it, this is the point i was trying to make, the only difference between then and now, was that then you were pretty much stuck with mapsource and had to learn it as alternatives were very scarce. Now its a whole different ball game you have choice, so instead of having to learn to use basecamp you can go out and find easier (that does not mean better) pieces of software to use that do not take the time and effort that mapsource and basecamp do. Most people will take the least line of resistance.

 

[The Grey One]

dont know what you are doing different to me but using this as an example. i first entered atherstone as first waypoint and then moreton in the marsh as my second and then daventry last that was in the order i wanted to go in, and base camp came back with this, now its easy enough to re order them, but as you can see they do not follow the order of entry.

That's Mapsource. Anyway I see where the confusion is. You have made a few waypoints and Mapsource then lists them alphabetically as would appear logical. I thought the issue was with placing successive waypoints in a route. If you start a new route you can add waypoints and they remain in the order in which you chose them. Apparently Basecamp will not do this unless you give them sequential numbers.

I hope that makes sense

John

 

[leedude03]

quote leedude03 #97 (and how do you name the waypoints you add and how are you adding them , because i feel sure that if you just added waypoints by the name that mapsource chose they would indeed become random, i am talking about just adding waypoints and not adding waypoints to a route. as the above gent led me to believe he was doing,). Quote leedude03 #98 (of course if you add waypoints to a created route it will put them in order along said route, in other words open mapsorce and randomly left click and then right click add waypoint and do this without a route being present and you will of course get a random list of waypoints in not the order you added them ) i appologize I may not have made it clear enough.

 

[cookie]

Dear Cookie. I was also putting an alternative view in a thread about Basecamp. I think there is room for all, don't you?


John

that was pretty much my point.

nice to see you're making good use it