accorging to some its the spawn of satan, just goes to show how varied peoples opinions are on this piece of software.
Struggling with Basecamp?
- Thread starter Nutty
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accorging to some its the spawn of satan, just goes to show how varied peoples opinions are on this piece of software.
The Grey One
Registered user
I'm not one of those who say it's quite that bad, just that for me it offers no advantages over the much easier to understand Mapsource software. I understand that it is better on a Mac but on a PC it takes longer to open up than Mapsource and takes significantly longer to connect to the device and be ready to receive a route. Having to wait while it loads a map from the device which is already on the PC is ludicrous and should have been sorted out in development. I find dragging a route easier in Mapsource than Basecamp and I much prefer the way in which Mapsource saves my routes in normal files and folders that I can easily create and edit.
I am amused by some of the defenders of Basecamp who refuse to accept that it could, and should, be so much better. They assume some sort of virtuous position because they persevered and devoted time to overcoming the shortcomings of what is supposed to be a replacement for previous software. Yes it can be mastered but so what? Why should it be necessary to put so much effort into learning just to perform simple tasks? For the casual user, the guy who only plots routes once a year for instance, Basecamp simply looks too complicated. The fact that so many are looking elsewhere is proof of that.
I suspect that the overwhelming majority of Garmin users don't use mapping software very often, many never do and just use the device to get from A to B. It is this mass of people who are put off by Basecamp and that is rather sad. For me the whole point of a Sat Nav is that it gives me, as a rider, the ability to chose the roads I want to ride in addition to taking me to my exact destination. Putting people off doing that, as Basecamp undoubtedly does, means that many people never see the full benefit of their device.
I do look at Basecamp from time to time and I keep my version updated. Hopefully there will come a time when Garmin take on board some of the criticisms and implement changes so that it is both easier to understand and encourages rather than discourages new users. Meanwhile I will continue to use Mapsource.
John
The Grey one, Quote ( It is this mass of people who are put off by Basecamp) I believe this should read, It is this mass of people who are put off by Basecamp, mapsource or any other piece of software that they cannot get to work and find to difficult to use, because most of them require something simple/straightforward/intuative. in other words they want something EASIER. This may not necessarily be better but its what they are happy with.
Much the same as yourself really who has said about basecamp quote (just that for me it offers no advantages over the much easier to understand Mapsource software).
And i dare say that people who have found mapsource difficult to use have moved onto products like motogoloco, and feel exactly the same about mapsource as you feel about basecamp.
Myself i can see many advantages of Motogoloco vs basecamp or mapsource, just as i can between basecamp vs mapsource or mapsource vs basecamp, for me though i prefer to use a combination of tools to try and cover all eventualities.
Much the same as yourself really who has said about basecamp quote (just that for me it offers no advantages over the much easier to understand Mapsource software).
And i dare say that people who have found mapsource difficult to use have moved onto products like motogoloco, and feel exactly the same about mapsource as you feel about basecamp.
Myself i can see many advantages of Motogoloco vs basecamp or mapsource, just as i can between basecamp vs mapsource or mapsource vs basecamp, for me though i prefer to use a combination of tools to try and cover all eventualities.
The Grey One
Registered user
There are many people who have used Mapsource but find Basecamp difficult. You are being disingenuous if you are trying to claim that Basecamp is not more complex or requires more learning than Mapsource or several other such programs.
As I have said before Mapsource does all I need so I see no point in using anything else. Why make life more complicated?
John
As I have said before Mapsource does all I need so I see no point in using anything else. Why make life more complicated?
John
Ask yourself this...who came round and showed you how to use a smart phone or I phone....now go get them to explain the simplicity of Base Camp...
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Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
iand46
Registered user
BaseCamp is used by the masses worldwide. Not just vehicle gps but all number of gps devices, Cycling, walking & geo catching to name but a few. Garmin sell a lot of devices on the back of it. Check out the adventures people share on it.
I never said mapsource was not easier to use than base camp, i was simply pointing out that there were probably as many people who could not use mapsource as there were people who could not use basecamp.
Where as you seem to be blaming basecamp for people not using there satnav to its full potential.
personally i would agree that basecamp is more difficult to use, does that make mapsource a better piece of software. i think not, but thats just my opinion. is motogoloco better than mapsource or basecamp i dont think so, again my opinion, but as evidence supports lots of people on here do think its better than both, so just maybe its not all basecamps fault why people dont use their sat navs to there full potential, and now that there is a new player in the game, that a lot of people seem to be finding very good and easier to use, people may start using their sat navs to the full and we can stop feeling sad. and i do mean we because i see it as a waste of a wonderful piece of tech to just use as a simple get me from a to b device with no input.
The Grey One
Registered user
I certainly do not agree that there were as many people put of by Mapsource. Whilst in Austria I talked to hundreds of Sat Nav users every summer. I can tell you that complaints about Basecamp far outnumbered those about Mapsource. I do think Garmin are at fault for not making Basecamp easier to understand. I think that what they should have done is arranged for early success. By this I mean encouraging users by making simple tasks as easy as possible so that the user gains confidence and therefore actually wants to learn more.
I have some experience in this in that in the late 80's I helped to develop a computer system for running a small garage. The software was very advanced for its day-a windowing system before Windows that looked and operated very much like a MAC. It was very comprehensive with full customer and vehicle records, stock control, invoicing etc. It was a full colour system with every function looking like its paper equivalent. As we sold the system to people who had hardly if ever used a computer before (this was 1988) we arranged for, what looked to the user, a very simple start up screen. Only the invoice was visible and as that looked like a paper version the user could see immediately what was required. Once the basic function of creating an invoice was mastered we could introduce other parts of the system. The new user could see that by making his invoice the system had updated customer records, stock levels and the sales ledger. This gave him the confidence to explore the system for himself. We then gradually introduced more functions until within a short time the user had a fully functioning system.
It is this sort of approach that I think should have been used by Garmin. Instead of Basecamp opening up in its full form some kind of start up version with a simple guide to making your first route would encourage users. This could be user controlled so that the full bells and whistles system could be brought into use once confidence in the basic system had been established.
I don't think you and I are very far apart on this, we both would like to see more people realising the potential of their Sat Navs. I don't decry alternative systems such as those mentioned. I think they are a good thing in that more people are getting the benefit of creating and using their own routes. For me, as I have said, Mapsource does all I need and has the advantage of using the same maps as I have on my devices.
Anything that encourages new users to get more out of their devices should be encouraged. Maybe Garmin will take the hint and introduce a system that encourages rather than discourages new users.
John
A collection of the fabled 'Like minded souls'.
The Grey One
Registered user
Just ordinary folk, literally hundreds of them who couldn't get on with Basecamp. It is for Garmin to make an effort to improve the software not for users to struggle to "master" it.
John
creating and shaping a route to preference in basecamp could be learned in 30 seconds.
the more contemporary filing system for routes would take a bit longer, and the search function is something of a mystery i doubt anyone could explain.
i should mention how hard it was for some people to grasp mapsource though. the old GS Club used to do hands on workshops on mapsource, and i even helped at at least one of them, so i know it was not straightforward. maybe having struggled with mapsource, some people are reluctant to put in the effort to learn something slightly different.
the more contemporary filing system for routes would take a bit longer, and the search function is something of a mystery i doubt anyone could explain.
i should mention how hard it was for some people to grasp mapsource though. the old GS Club used to do hands on workshops on mapsource, and i even helped at at least one of them, so i know it was not straightforward. maybe having struggled with mapsource, some people are reluctant to put in the effort to learn something slightly different.
The Grey One
Registered user
As it takes more than 30 seconds for Basecamp to open I feel you exaggerate a little! If it came with a simple tutorial that showed how to create a route then you might have a point. As it is new users are just left to flounder. If it was supposed to improve on Mapsource doing this would be a start. If,as you say, users struggled with Mapsource why was ease of us not higher up the priorities? As you say the search facility is poor-far worse than the one in Mapsource. I tend to use a Laptop without a mouse and I find the method of dragging a route more difficult in Basecamp. As for the "more contemporary" filing, just how is that an improvement? Why can we not see this file structure without opening Basecamp?
I am sure that many of us who can use Mapsource, struggle or not, do find Basecamp awkward. From my point of view Basecamp offers me nothing I don't have already so explain to me why I should "put in effort to learn something different" when that something different offers nothing to me in return for this effort.
I know Basecamp works and if I were starting planning routes now rather than 13 years ago I would probably have used Basecamp. But as I have a system that does everything I need I have no incentive to learn another system. I salute those who have mastered Basecamp but I do feel some if its defenders are a little out of touch with the vast majority of casual users. Help them out by all means but pretending that Basecamp is user friendly won't win you many converts.
John
Basecamp is easy enough except for when it does weird *hit. And trust me all software does and when there's an upgrade to fix the weird *hit it creates weird *hit somewhere else in the programme.
I've just made an attempt at creating a route from Waypoints in Basecamp.
Basecamp seems to ignore the order in which the waypoints are added and randomly created a route, joining the waypoints up as it sees fit. Probably as per the settings.
Is this normal? Do I then have to edit to route to get all the waypoints in the correct order. If I had a hundred or so I'd be at it all day!
Basecamp seems to ignore the order in which the waypoints are added and randomly created a route, joining the waypoints up as it sees fit. Probably as per the settings.
Is this normal? Do I then have to edit to route to get all the waypoints in the correct order. If I had a hundred or so I'd be at it all day!
you would need to put the waypoints in order. rename and put 01 infront of first waypoint 02 infront of second and so on.
i doubt anyone would use 100 waypoints when maybe shaping points would.
The Grey One
Registered user
Just may have proved my point! If I add waypoints in Mapsource it keeps them in that order I added them unless I tell it otherwise, Are you saying you have to number waypoints just so that Basecamp doesn't say "Nanny know best" and organises them as it see fit?
John
and how do you name the waypoints you add and how are you adding them , because i feel sure that if you just added waypoints by the name that mapsource chose they would indeed become random, i am talking about just adding waypoints and not adding waypoints to a route. as the above gent led me to believe he was doing,
of course if you add waypoints to a created route it will put them in order along said route, in other words open mapsorce and randomly left click and then right click add waypoint and do this without a route being present and you will of course get a random list of waypoints in not the order you added them
Slowly getting to grips, it just needs a bit more discipline.
Rename the waypoints as you add them, preferably with a start number, that way the waypoints listed under the "list" in "collection" will be in the correct order. Simple enough to then highlight them all to create the route.
Rename the waypoints as you add them, preferably with a start number, that way the waypoints listed under the "list" in "collection" will be in the correct order. Simple enough to then highlight them all to create the route.
Thats pretty much spot on.
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