Swinging arm failure

[shugie]

Anything complex made in serious volumes will have some faults, that's unavoidable, even the best of premium brands acknowledge that. It's not cost effective to do full NDT on every component, but if the manufacturer is prepared to accept the problem when something breaks, even if well out of warranty, then they are being at least sensible about it.

BMW are better than Renault at doing out of warranty work, if not as perfect as we all might wish. If they don't fix this problem FOC though, then they are due a righteous slating.

All the tosh about how shite 1200s are though is just tosh. Usually uttered by people who expect perfection at shite product prices.

 

[PembsGSA]

This should NOT happen under any circumstances and is a serious and potentionally FATAL failure.

BMW UK (not your local dealer ) and VOSA should be made aware of the incident and the swingingarm should be professionally examined

I would assume it is due to a casting fault ( any previous damage on this particular machine that might cause such a failure would be easily visible) rather than a design fault .

BUT what really pisses me off with this forum is those blinkered people who just cannot see that BMW's actually have faults (FD failures ,fuel pumps, gearboxes etc) and if anyone mentions the faults they will slag them off till the cows come home.

They would rather stick their head in the sand or more likely up their own arses and shout very loudly about how reassuringly expensive and totally reliable their precious BMW motorcycle are with no real or perceived faults.

+1

A bit of engineering rational required here; yes components fail, this is why within industry, manufacturers provide devices/components with MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure rates).
Components/devices with moving parts such as bearings, FD's, suspensions, gearboxes and electrical/electronic devices such as fuel pumps, rectifiers etc, will eventually fail. When of course is dependant on many design factors, which include and are not limited to, material, weight, cost etc. However this is a structural item, and as mentioned previously, due to safety considerations, should never fail.
I understand, the emphasis on this failure being very rare, however it should be non-existent.
A previous post using an analogy with aircraft falling out of the sky due to structural failure is hardly credible or helpful.

 

[patzx12]

Hi Terry
I have a low milage arm off a 05, its just sitting in a shed.
You can have it FOC it it helps.

 

[B4ndit]

So why feckin comment then Things sometimes break......get over it

Not in this way. Its pretty serious and we are lucky to be discussing it now and not the demise of a BMW rider.

 

[Pukmeister]

Hi Terry
I have a low milage arm off a 05, its just sitting in a shed.
You can have it FOC it it helps.

What a gent Pat, you are a top bloke.

Terry:

The swing arm bearing adjusting tool made by Laser tools are available online for about a tenner. I have one, you are welcome to borrow it if you need one.

New swing arm bearings are about £30 for the pair from a BMW dealer, I have a spare new set in my garage spares somewhere you can also have FOC if you need to do the job yourself.

The FD-to-Swing arm knuckle bearings can't be too pricey either (I don't hold any).

The rest of the job is all nuts and bolts and a bit of skinned knuckles/swearing/tea drinking. I can lend you my Haynes manual or BMW RepROM CD for the tech info you need.

Shouldn't be too difficult or expensive to get it back on the road.

My guess for the failure mode is porosity or inclusions in the alloy casting beneath the surface leading to stress cracking and sudden fracture. I presume the fracture surfaces show a coarse dull grey surface along the length, with a possible burnished (shiny or smooth) area where the original crack fretted then propagated??

 

[TJD1200]

Hi Terry
I have a low milage arm off a 05, its just sitting in a shed.
You can have it FOC it it helps.

Patzx12 .........
I don't know what to say! YES PLEASE, er Thanks!

I know this needs to be formally investigated by someone as to why it failed, but I also really need to get it back on the road.....

Other than the swinging arm, miraculously everything else looks like cosmetic damage.....

Can you find out what it would cost to ship it here... to post code CM8

Regards

TJD

 

[TJD1200]

It probably has happened to the odd 1150 also, but the the intrepid pilot was so resourceful he splinted it back together at the roadside with a 10mm spanner & some duct tape . . . and it's still holding 9 years on!

I've got some duck tape aswell, only black or white though ........

TJD

 

[TJD1200]

What a gent Pat, you are a top bloke.

Terry:

The swing arm bearing adjusting tool made by Laser tools are available online for about a tenner. I have one, you are welcome to borrow it if you need one.

New swing arm bearings are about £30 for the pair from a BMW dealer, I have a spare new set in my garage spares somewhere you can also have FOC if you need to do the job yourself.

The FD-to-Swing arm knuckle bearings can't be too pricey either (I don't hold any).

The rest of the job is all nuts and bolts and a bit of skinned knuckles/swearing/tea drinking. I can lend you my Haynes manual or BMW RepROM CD for the tech info you need.

Shouldn't be too difficult or expensive to get it back on the road.

My guess for the failure mode is porosity or inclusions in the alloy casting beneath the surface leading to stress cracking and sudden fracture. I presume the fracture surfaces show a coarse dull grey surface along the length, with a possible burnished (shiny or smooth) area where the original crack fretted then propagated??

1st. Guys (all of you) thanks for your replies....
The offer of help and the sarcasum is helping me get through what is dawning on me as a life changing few moments..... last week. At the weekend, looking at the bike it hit me..... Got to get back on it soon!

Pukmiester...
Thanks for your comments....... I have bought a Haynes manual, didn't think I would need it for this type of work... however....
"Bearing adjustment tool" I'll go and get one..... Anyone post a link to one from somewhere so that I get the right thing... thanks
"Swinging arm bearings".... I'll call the shop tomorrow for these. (There shut today!)

From all I can gather the propshaft is a potential week spot so I think I should look at getting a new one?

The rear drive seems free enough.... however it is cosmetically abused and the wheel has paint damage. It is a spoked wheel... should I get that checked and by whom? Does anyone know of such a person in the Essex area?

Your last paragraph... I totally agree and yes that is what the broken surfaces look like. (don't tell anyone but I am an engineer that has dabbled in forensics.....).. But can't see the starting point... quite abit of the arm is missing......

Thanks again

Regards

Terry

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

1st. Guys (all of you) thanks for your replies....
The offer of help and the sarcasum is helping me get through what is dawning on me as a life changing few moments..... last week. At the weekend, looking at the bike it hit me..... Got to get back on it soon!

Pukmiester...
Thanks for your comments....... I have bought a Haynes manual, didn't think I would need it for this type of work... however....
"Bearing adjustment tool" I'll go and get one..... Anyone post a link to one from somewhere so that I get the right thing... thanks
"Swinging arm bearings".... I'll call the shop tomorrow for these. (There shut today!)

From all I can gather the propshaft is a potential week spot so I think I should look at getting a new one?

The rear drive seems free enough.... however it is cosmetically abused and the wheel has paint damage. It is a spoked wheel... should I get that checked and by whom? Does anyone know of such a person in the Essex area?

Your last paragraph... I totally agree and yes that is what the broken surfaces look like. (don't tell anyone but I am an engineer that has dabbled in forensics.....).. But can't see the starting point... quite abit of the arm is missing......

Thanks again

Regards

Terry

With a 2007 bike, with a FSH and 12000 miles...................I would be parking it up at the BMW dealer you normally use (after taking loads of pics of the bike and where it happened)

I would then ask them to contact BMW to inspect the bike to make comment

You need to be contacting your area BMW rep and the head of their UK technical dept

Write a log, with some pics and fire off some very searching questions in your letter

Don't touch it yourself, you will weaken your position

If it was my bike, I would want a whole new drivetrain, from the gearbox back and including a wheel FOC from BMW.......... or my next step would be to contact VOSA/Trading Standards and BBC Watchdog's programme

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Patzx12 .........
I don't know what to say! YES PLEASE, er Thanks!

I also really need to get it back oI know this needs to be formally investigated by someone as to why it failed, butn the road.....

Other than the swinging arm, miraculously everything else looks like cosmetic damage.....

Can you find out what it would cost to ship it here... to post code CM8

Regards

TJD

Buy an old BMW K series for less than £1000 for a while, It's gonna be costing you that in parts alone, so get a winter hack and park your nice 12GSA at a BM dealer near you (front car park, near the showroom doors on a busy Sat lunchtime, for max effect) should do the trick

 

[its all poo]

good grief

My friend might have had the same happen, this is the story. He was riding along the highway he went to change lanes and he fell off. There was not much damage to the bike but the swinging arm had broken in a similar place. At the time I wondered how the crash had broken it. We all thought he migt have not been telling the whole story but this makes me think again.

The swinging arm was welded and checked by xray. The bike has done 1000s of miles since and all is ok.

 

[GS TRV]

With a 2007 bike, with a FSH and 12000 miles...................I would be parking it up at the BMW dealer you normally use (after taking loads of pics of the bike and where it happened)

I would then ask them to contact BMW to inspect the bike to make comment

You need to be contacting your area BMW rep and the head of their UK technical dept

Write a log, with some pics and fire off some very searching questions in your letter

Don't touch it yourself, you will weaken your position

If it was my bike, I would want a whole new drivetrain, from the gearbox back and including a wheel FOC from BMW.......... or my next step would be to contact VOSA/Trading Standards and BBC Watchdog's programme

spot on advice.

The second you put a finger on it you can wave goodbye to any chance of getting it resolved.

 

[TJD1200]

With a 2007 bike, with a FSH and 12000 miles...................I would be parking it up at the BMW dealer you normally use (after taking loads of pics of the bike and where it happened)

I would then ask them to contact BMW to inspect the bike to make comment

You need to be contacting your area BMW rep and the head of their UK technical dept

Write a log, with some pics and fire off some very searching questions in your letter

Don't touch it yourself, you will weaken your position

If it was my bike, I would want a whole new drivetrain, from the gearbox back and including a wheel FOC from BMW.......... or my next step would be to contact VOSA/Trading Standards and BBC Watchdog's programme

....... Sorry didn't make it very clear.... it is going to my BMW dealer (untouched) as soon as... (Sat hopefully at the latest)
The other comments are a fall back.....

Regards
TJD

PS apparently it was seen on CCTV. Now, how do I get that footage..!!

 

[autogs]

With a 2007 bike, with a FSH and 12000 miles...................I would be parking it up at the BMW dealer you normally use (after taking loads of pics of the bike and where it happened)

I would then ask them to contact BMW to inspect the bike to make comment

You need to be contacting your area BMW rep and the head of their UK technical dept

Write a log, with some pics and fire off some very searching questions in your letter

Don't touch it yourself, you will weaken your position

If it was my bike, I would want a whole new drivetrain, from the gearbox back and including a wheel FOC from BMW.......... or my next step would be to contact VOSA/Trading Standards and BBC Watchdog's programme

absolutly spot on,ews etc fpc etc is almost to be expected in this day and age but this isnt,please dont go in guns blazing though(although i dont blame you) but be polite and assertive and you woll stand a better chance of getting the dealer on your side.

 

[Pukmeister]

http://www.lasertools.co.uk/item.aspx?code=4740

 

[Rasher]

BUT what really pisses me off with this forum is those blinkered people who just cannot see that BMW's actually have faults (FD failures ,fuel pumps, gearboxes etc) and if anyone mentions the faults they will slag them off till the cows come home.

Really, I have found nobody has given me a hard time when I question some of the BMW's potential issues, they have all politely informed me I am fool and BMW's do not have any issues, which nicely clears it all up.

I suspect the OP must have inadvertently sawed through his motorcyle whilst doing som DIY and is now trying to blame BMW.


In seriousness though I think VOSA should be informed in case this is a ticking time bomb and many more bikes could fail, although with such a low failure rate compared to machines on the road I would hope there is a reason buried in the bikes past.

May wrap mine in Gaffa tape just to strenthen it up a bit in case.

 

[B4ndit]

Thank god it is incredibly rare and no need for any sensitive types to run away and hide from the 1200GS and BMW in general because of it.

Starting to get less rare now.

 

[Tricky]

Starting to get less rare now.

Don't you fret now. Mr Rasher is on the case.

I am fool

 

[deaninkl]

I think we are all aware the the 1200 shaved a lot of weight off its former 1150 stablemate to arrive that the 198kg (dry) that we had at its launch. That is a lot of motorcycle to squeeze into that weight, so the had to make a lot of savings over the 1150, looks like everything got a look and a tweak. The result is certainly a weaker bike in some departments to the 1150. But one reason it has sold so well its that its much more manageable than the 1150. Just proving you can't have your cake and eat it.

Lucky this still seams fairly rare, and lucky Terry walked away from what could have been nasty.

 

[B4ndit]

Don't you fret now. Mr Rasher is on the case.

I must admit I would still buy a 1200 GS. At this time it would be a AD 2008 model. And I wouldn't be paying top dollar for it. Its not really a top dollar motor. Its just a really good sales icon. Cheers Charlie and Ewan.

My concern is that some people do pay top dollar for a motor bike that appears to have some major issues and then either accept all its faults as some sort of character building exercise or "that sort of thing just happens because they have sold so many".

In this case the back of the vehicle falling off is a bit extreme just to pass off as one of those sort of things.

Hopefully there is a good answer for this.

At this time though I don't think that the 1200 is worth the money that BMW are asking for it. There are plenty of other bikes out there that do just as good a job as the GS and cost much less. And they don't collapse in half.

Me. I am glad I have a GS. An old 1150, that is a spare bike that I am working on as a project. Learning lots about servicing and fixing it. And for servicing its really easy to work on.

The GS handles well and goes well. Its heavy though and the worst thing is that although I have done all the service items I still have this niggle at the back of my mind that the FD bearing will pack up or the clutch or some part of it will go (Thats the downside of the internet, seeing everyone elses problems). The clutch replacement is definately not another notch on BMWs bed post.

Oh well best I pull up the sandbags now and wait to get shot at.