Swinging arm failure

[TJD1200]

What seems clear ? That to avoid paying for repair or accept any sort of liability, BMW 'suggest' (without any investigation )the bike has been rear ended ?

Though it would of been nice to have been offererd any form of support.... to be told like that and .......
....... well how would you feel?

Got it back now ..... with brand new Acraprovic and the baffle has been removed..... I'm just going to run it now in my garage with the door open....health and safety and all that....... sounds loverly..

TJD

 

[PanzerPilot]

Good to see you are okay mate!!
My heart would have stopped when the swingarm went bang!
Rich

 

[B4ndit]

I'm still of the opinion it shouldn't happen to an expensive bike. (BMW)

Unless its been abused.

 

[Myke Rocks]

Your dickie is in the ashes!

I'm still of the opinion it shouldn't happen to an expensive bike. (BMW)

Unless its been abused.

I shall rephrase your statement, for your agreement, of course:

I am of the opinion it shouldn't happen to any bike, whether it has been abused or not.

Myke

 

[Fanum]

I shall rephrase your statement, for your agreement, of course:

I am of the opinion it shouldn't happen to any bike, whether it has been abused or not.

Myke

I shall re-rephrase your statement, for your agreement, of course:

I am of the opinion it shouldn't happen to any bike, whether it has been abused or not, but this is the real world, and I accept that occasionally, it can and will happen.

Definitely worth pursuing the dealership to get better answers IMO, but at the end of the day, I think everyone recognises that this is a very VERY rare occurrence that should NOT have happened, but with any volume engineered part subject to any of of stress, will from time to time occur.

Would it stop me from buying one? No.
(Ok, I wouldn't have bought it 'cos it's a 1200, but that's another story)
If it had happened to me, would I buy another one?
Yes.

Without wanting to be a BMW apologist, this was an (almost) unprecedented failure.......any vehicle, when sufficiently produced, will suffer a one-off failure in a critical part......no, it shouldn't happen, but it does, and the chances of some flat capped smidsy reversing out of his drive and sending me on my arse down the road to fatally collide with a badly placed lamppost bothers me 1000 times more than a one off (albeit extreme) failure like this.

I'm pleased you didn't damage yourself TDJ, and I hope you have had your whole lifetime of pant-browning moments all over in this one nasty incident, but I hope people have got the whole thing in perspective

 

[TJD1200]

Don't disagree with anything said Fanum....

Pursuing the dealer isn't really going to be that productive, I get the feeling much of what has been fed back to me felt like it was scripted by them first..... if that makes sense.......
I do very much agree with the rarity ? of the event and it hasn't put me off the bike ....
I think the only issue I've got is the attitude of the "Technical Dept" of BMW.
If I was a part of this company I would be chomping at the bit trying to get to this one, to try and find the problem..... obviously I've been doing it wrong for the last 30+ years....

However ..... I haven't actually spoken to BMW myself, I've left it all to the dealer...... up 'til now..... not sure how I would deal with the conversation if I got the response the dealer gave me....?

Now strangely I look back on the event and I do want to go through it all again...!!!
This time maybe on the dirt somewhere in Wales (or somewhere near there) I had always intended to go on one of those off road courses......

Not sure they teach what to do when ya swinging arm drops off though........

Regards

TJD

 

[WindyChuffer]

TJD: having dealt directly with BMW in the past over the refund of a bike (I won) I would suggest you write a letter explaining the problem and what you want done. Keep it free of emotion. Forget the dealer.

Additionally i suggest finding a lawyer to take this on. Am sure you'll find a no win no fee lawyer that will assist. Keep this in your back pocket for when the inevitable denial letter comes from BMW.

Might also be worth commissioning an engineers report based on the failed swing arm and what is left of it.

I would suggest that you have a strong case here.

Mike.

 

[Sgt Bilco]

Are you 100% sure the dealer has spoken with BMW? Tell the dealer you aren't happy with the outcome and ask for contact details yourself then write a good letter.

You also have to be sure what you want out of this. New swingarm? Compensation? Assurance it was a one off?

Forget the feckin lawyer. All you will do is antagonise the manufacturer and they will start to bring the big guns out and you are sure to get involved in a load of legal bollox and will get nowhere fast.

BMW will probably say it's a rare failure and is down to ill luck or wear and tear and they are probably right. Thinks break sometimes and shit happens but that doesn't excuse it. If you approach them properly and calmly, you may get something in the way of goodwill which would be a result IMHO.

I used to work for a big truck manufacturer and if a customer had an unexpected failure or something out of warranty we would always be sympathetic and try to "do a deal" if he was sensible and polite. As soon as the "I'll get my lawyer on it" or "fit for purpose" bollox was mentioned it was shutters down and bring it on.

 

[Rasher]

Did you not contact VOSA?

The delaer will fob you off, he does not want it to be his problem, BMW will also fob you off if they think they can.

It may be rare, but still not unheard of, other GS have had this same failure so it is not a one-off, and although extremely rare BMW should investigate.

It may be down to a previous knock, but then again it may not, there could e a whole batch of bikes that are weaker and this could happen again which is why BMW should investigate any such failure just to be sure it is not a problem.

It is not enough to put me off riding my bike, or buying another one (The ongoing saga of dodgy FD's / FPC's / EWS / Fuel Sensors / CAM Sensors and every other sub standard component BMW fit have already done that)

If it was my bike I would want the question as to why this happened answered, and if it was not my fault / due to earlier mishap I would expect it to be resolved under goodwill.

 

[MikeP]

with WindyChuffer

Don't go down the route of threatening BMW(GB) with bad PR, loss of sales etc. If the early FD, FPC and immobiliser failures didn't stop people buying GS's in their droves, your shaft housing catastrophe won't bother them.

Many years ago, I had a car crash caused by a tyre failure. Being an impecunious 19 year-old with a taste for sports cars, I could only afford third-party insurance but I did lash-out on AA membership.

The AA legal department took-on the case, sent the remains of the tyre to a lab and showed that it was of faulty construction. The tyre company then stumped-up for the repairs.

It took a while and I had to sell everything of any value that I possessed to get the repairs done in the meantime but at least I got the money back.

 

[Tusky]

Interesting thread and totally agree with both the above posts

Regardless of manufacturer it really pisses me off when dealers try to fob off people with crap like that. There should be a legally binding duty of care to fully investigate all potentially life threatening catastrophic failures.

If you want to pursue it, then I guess an engineers report / expert witness (metallurgist) is the logical route to go. I would have it done anyway for my own piece of mind and to be sure of the facts !!!

If you do not get the response BMW that you want, then make it clear that this is a course of action that you will pursue (or have pursued), your insurance legal assistance may or may not support you in this. Either way, I would make it clear to BMW that you would be looking to be reimbursed for the cost of the report, as it is something that they should be instigating as part of their duty of care.

You should also make it clear that in the event of a report that indicates manufacturing faults or fracture caused by vibration / excessive side forces (as mentioned elsewhere in the thread) you will be seeking compensation and forwarding your report to VOSA and dispatching them the swing arm for their own experts to examine.

 

[dongleplonk]

Wont keep me awake at night either.
Now its up to you whether you go all American on BMW's ass and get a lawyer or whether your happy for a we will repair the damage sir.

It will me!!! I can't believe this could happen to a GS.

Production casting issues?

 

[BBB61]

TJD,

Which dealer have you been using for this issue?

 

[Sgt Bilco]

It will me!!! I can't believe this could happen to a GS.

Production casting issues?

Jeez mate, it's happened to a few bikes out of a production run of many many 1000's and looking at the picture of another one, he was clearly riding it at it's outside limits. If things like this keep you awake at night, I would finder a safer pastime

OK, it shouldn't happen but things do and if I were the OP, the minumum I would need is a good reason i.e was it accident damage or a very rare metal failure and I'd be happy enough if the repairs were covered by BMW.

 

[dongleplonk]

Agreed - things happen. For a fecking reason!

But hey, riding outside the limits of the machine would I agree cause you problems. Like jumping 30 buses perhaps.

The thing is I suppose, the overall design means that the danger is limited. Different to that of, for example, a cast wheel collapses I mean.

So yes - I agree - don't mean to be alarmist in any sense but I suppose since my GS is the first single sided swinging arm bike I've owned (out of many many bikes) my eyebrows did raise a little.

Ooops - must go. Late for my extreme sports lesson.

 

[swissrob]

The casting on the arm is thin and made of soft material - i suspect its a 6000 series alloy material.
My concern is the lower roller bearing has no grease point, so over time if it seazes any movement of the arm causes undue stress on the whole arm and especially the areas surrounding the bearing, normally leading to cracking. its a stab in the dark but that would be my first focal point.

What ever you do, keep hold of that arm DO NOT send it or hand it over to BMW and chase up VOSA etc.

For the small cost cost I would get a metallurgist report.

 

[Daffy]

Regardless of manufacturer it really pisses me off when dealers try to fob off people with crap like that. There should be a legally binding duty of care to fully investigate all potentially life threatening catastrophic failures.

You should also make it clear that in the event of a report that indicates manufacturing faults or fracture caused by vibration / excessive side forces (as mentioned elsewhere in the thread) you will be seeking compensation and forwarding your report to VOSA and dispatching them the swing arm for their own experts to examine.

BMW do have a responsibility (under a voluntary code of practice) to report & investigate any defect that can happen without warning and can cause significant risk of death or serious injury if they believe that there is a risk to others.

The fact that they have fobbed you off means that either they are not aware, believe it was a one off or have not realised the situation. I would say that to state that this is a result of a shunt is at best reckless.

Bilco is right, forget the lawyers, thats just fighting talk, your best bet would be to contact the Vehicle Safety Branch of VOSA in Bristol, they will take your issue seriously until you make them think that you are having them support your quest for gain (they get lots of bogus reports where people don't want their vehicles or are in dispute with manufacturers)

I would go along the line of serious failure with no warning, concern for other users, BMW not interested etc etc. also google the Recall code of practice VOSA or search the VOSA website for info on the CoP.

I won't say how, but I know but they are working between Xmas and New Year, I suggest you pick up the phone and have a chat, they are Human.

 

[slydog]

dodge the dealer

id dodge the dealer if iwas you and write to bmw direct . i know the dealers you are using my mate seen your bike outside round the back . ive had dealings with them and i wouldnt trust them as far as i could throw them . they told me my rear drive needed replacing as it had major excessive play in it and was dangerous . knowing this was not the case i walked into the workshop and started shouting my mouth off . a fitter came over and asked what the roblem was . i explained what the manager told me and that it was bollox . he inspected the rear drive and said theres nothing wrong with it . after asking for an explanation i was told the fitter that examined it first was an apprentice wtf . if i didnt know better i would have said oh dear you best fix it and heres you 1200 quid

 

[BBB61]

id dodge the dealer if iwas you and write to bmw direct . i know the dealers you are using my mate seen your bike outside round the back . ive had dealings with them and i wouldnt trust them as far as i could throw them . they told me my rear drive needed replacing as it had major excessive play in it and was dangerous . knowing this was not the case i walked into the workshop and started shouting my mouth off . a fitter came over and asked what the roblem was . i explained what the manager told me and that it was bollox . he inspected the rear drive and said theres nothing wrong with it . after asking for an explanation i was told the fitter that examined it first was an apprentice wtf . if i didnt know better i would have said oh dear you best fix it and heres you 1200 quid

Would this dealer have an arsenal of weapons by any chance?

 

[slydog]

Would this dealer have an arsenal of weapons by any chance?

bang bang