TPS & Halls sensor setting

[monkeyboy]

My 2002 1150GSA is riding like an absolute b'stard and I'm out of ideas. It's stuttering and faltering at idle and low speed on/off throttle is a random jerk style arrangement yet at high speed and during acceleration all is fine. It's an absolute pig to ride in traffic and I'm going to try and get it to steptoe in the next few weeks (I can't get it there any sooner). The revs also seem to die too slowly so I go flying into roundabouts etc cos off throttle doesn't seem to have the desired effect. When it gets hot the revs rise high too, maybe up to 2k. Normal idle is fluctating between 1500 and 1100 except when it faulters and skips then recovers. When the revs rise I check the throttles are fully closed with my fingers but it makes no difference. Just occasionally the bike runs fine for a while then all goes to poo again.

I've changed the plug leads, the plugs and the coil and I fitted a new lamba this weekend as I was changing the gearbox and clutch anyway. After the reassembly it is running even worse. I'm fecked if I know - I suspect either a flaky connection (the bike has done 65k), the TPS or the hall sensor though I thought either of the latter would fail completely rather than in the manner I'm getting. I hope it's not the motronic. I don't know what other sensors it gets info from to make it's decisions.

It's off to do the Pan-American early next year and I have to get it sorted ASAP. I have a spare TPS and a Hall sensor that's been knocking about in my tool box for years. I've changed a TPS years ago but can't remember the instructions. Something about sticking a paper clip up one of the contacts and measuring the voltage to .3 or something. As for the Hall sensor - that's not difficult to change but I don't know how to calibrate it as I know it's adjustable and needs to be coordinated with the timing I presume.

Any help with instructions, advice, cans of special magic German pixey dust, prayers to the god of metal or anything else that might stop me driving it straight into a river would be appreciated.

Ta

 

[gregneedham]

After extensive experience with a brand new (and faulty) Hall Sensor, I think you are correct that if the HES is faulty, it will stop the bike completely. Mine was heat sensitive and failed when the bike reached a certain temp.

What I can offer is some very incomplete knowledge about the throttle bodies. Apparently the part of the throttle body the wears out, usually on the right side and causes the loud rattle sound, can allow air in. Mine is like this and my bike runs poorly, like yours, and revs high. My service dept. told me that replacing or repairing the throttle body will cure this.

That is probably not the most helpful advice you will get, but it's all i got.

(edit): by the way, when I had my problem, I changed out the coil, the motronic, the spark plug leads and ran diagnostics on all the sensors and fuel injection pressure. All checked out fine. Somebody told me "almost all problems the seem fuel related are almost always electrical problems. Hope that helps.

 

[monkeyboy]

After extensive experience with a brand new (and faulty) Hall Sensor, I think you are correct that if the HES is faulty, it will stop the bike completely. Mine was heat sensitive and failed when the bike reached a certain temp.

What I can offer is some very incomplete knowledge about the throttle bodies. Apparently the part of the throttle body the wears out, usually on the right side and causes the loud rattle sound, can allow air in. Mine is like this and my bike runs poorly, like yours, and revs high. My service dept. told me that replacing or repairing the throttle body will cure this.

That is probably not the most helpful advice you will get, but it's all i got.

(edit): by the way, when I had my problem, I changed out the coil, the motronic, the spark plug leads and ran diagnostics on all the sensors and fuel injection pressure. All checked out fine. Somebody told me "almost all problems the seem fuel related are almost always electrical problems. Hope that helps.

Thanks Greg. I had the rattling throttle body experience on my R1100S and that's when I had to take off and replace the TPS last time. Eventually the throttle return spring failed when wide open and nearly threw me into a bus in the dark I've run the twinmax on the throttles and they seem well balanced (unlike myself at this point in time!) and are even throughout the rev range. That's not to say it's not the fault though.

As you say, it 'feels' fuel related but is almost certainly electrical. I'm with you on the Halls though. I was riding coast to coast through Canada a few years back and late one night a GS stopped dead. No spark. That was the Halls sensor. I had one go on my old Golf too. I reckon they either work or they don't, though my problems are certainly more pronounced when the engine is hotter.

Thanks again

 

[Stewart H]

My bike seems to run well with the TPS voltage between 0.36 and 0.39 volts

Stewart

 

[bart2181]

i,m no expert here(one might be along in a minute)but the tps you just take the old one off,replace with the new one push paper clip into the red/white connection and set to 3.6mv to 3.9 well thats what i think.and the hall sensor you have to scribe around the old one before taking off and replace with the new one in exactly the same place.i,ve had exactly the same prob has you with my 1100gs and its done my head completely inits only been after my thorough valve/throttle body sync thats its running better but my left t/bodys tapping like a good un so its off to scrimingers for a rebuild,hopefully then it,ll all be good.hope this helps cheers craig

 

[monkeyboy]

Thanks boys - I've remembered that I've got some spare injectors too and I'm going to swap them tonight and see if that maks any differernce. It seems to be better for a while just after I give it BIG stick then it gets worse again slowly as I ride slowly. Th TPS thing sounds easy enough and the Hall too. Thanks again - here's hoping!

 

[sproggy]

i,m no expert here(one might be along in a minute)but the tps you just take the old one off,replace with the new one push paper clip into the red/white connection and set to 3.6mv to 3.9 well thats what i think.

The TPS voltage without any tension on the throttle cable should be between about .340v and .390v (or between 340 and 390mv - not as stated above). Paper clip pushed up beside the red/white wire (marked No. 4 - pull back the rubber boot to get access) and connected to positive lead on meter. Negative lead connected to a good earth. Ignition on, engine not running. If necesary, loosen the 2 torx screws and turn to give the correct voltage - around 0.360 - 0.370v is about right in most cases.

When you've done that, pull fuse No. 5 (5th one from the left side of the bike) to re-set the motronic. Replace fuse. Ignition on, fully open and close the throttle a couple of times (although Steptoe will say this isn't necessary), ignition off. Now you're good to go.

 

[bart2181]

The TPS voltage without any tension on the throttle cable should be between about .340v and .390v (or between 340 and 390mv - not as stated above). Paper clip pushed up beside the red/white wire (marked No. 4 - pull back the rubber boot to get access) and connected to positive lead on meter. Negative lead connected to a good earth. Ignition on, engine not running. If necesary, loosen the 2 torx screws and turn to give the correct voltage - around 0.360 - 0.370v is about right in most cases.

When you've done that, pull fuse No. 5 (5th one from the left side of the bike) to re-set the motronic. Replace fuse. Ignition on, fully open and close the throttle a couple of times (although Steptoe will say this isn't necessary), ignition off. Now you're good to go.

your absolutly right there sproggy 340 to 390mv and NOT 3.60mv to 3.90.what doughnut said that

 

[(RIP) Yamaha1]

Need to check the TPS on my 04 R850R which suddenly seems to have thrown a wobbly - runs great when cold - accelerates normally - but once hot will fluff and often stop on tickover at traffic lights, etc. This fault has only just started - on a 4,000 mile bike.

Does anyone happen to know if these voltages also apply to the 850 range, please?

Also, any other ideas that may cause this fault welcomed. Haven't checked valve settings, but have balanced TB's so it seems more like an electrical problem, do you think?

Mike

 

[dancata]

Does anyone happen to know if these voltages also apply to the 850 range, please?


Mike

Whenever I have a doubt like that, I compare the part codes between the models.

 

[sproggy]

Does anyone happen to know if these voltages also apply to the 850 range, please?

I would have thought so - most of the parts are common. But my w/s manual covers only the 1150 so I couldn't say for sure.

Also, any other ideas that may cause this fault welcomed.

My recent problems turned out to be down to a faulty lambda sensor. Like yours, the bike ran fine when cold (because the lambda circuit is bypassed when the engine's cold) but played up when hot. It idled OK but misfired in the mid-range so that's different from yours but it's easy (and free) to check. Disconnect the sensor (the plug is above the right hand side of the wishbone), reset the ECU (pull fuse 5) and then try riding the bike.

But it could equally be coil, plug leads, plugs etc. It's a process of elimination, really, but do what I didn't and start with the free/cheap checks first!

 

[(RIP) Yamaha1]

Thanks for the input, guys.

Had a look at the parts ETK list, and it seems the part numbers for the TPS on the 1100 and the 850 are the same - but the ECU 's are different part numbers!!

Hmm - think I'll just measure the TPS voltage to see what it is engine cold - then do the same engine hot, in case it alters when hot.

I've just replaced the Lambda probe on my 1100GS in an attempt to cure rich running ( see seperate thread ) - got one cheap from eBay - but it didn't cure the fault, so just waiting on the Post Office to deliver a new oil temp sender to see if that's the culprit.

Mike

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

Need to check the TPS on my 04 R850R which suddenly seems to have thrown a wobbly - runs great when cold - accelerates normally - but once hot will fluff and often stop on tickover at traffic lights, etc. This fault has only just started - on a 4,000 mile bike.

Does anyone happen to know if these voltages also apply to the 850 range, please?

Also, any other ideas that may cause this fault welcomed. Haven't checked valve settings, but have balanced TB's so it seems more like an electrical problem, do you think?

Mike

Ah! He seeks the holy Grail of knowledge! I don't know btw. Spent a year looking though. Great wee bikes r850 r's

 

[(RIP) Yamaha1]

Ah! He seeks the holy Grail of knowledge! I don't know btw. Spent a year looking though. Great wee bikes r850 r's

Very true - LOL - it does seem BMW would much rather you go to the Dealer for any servicing issues, rather than DIY - probably an easier, but expensive option - but certainly not as much fun!!

Ah - the postman has just delivered my oil temp sensor - so that's another job to add to the growing list of jobs to do - very little time for all these jobs when you're retired!!

Mike

 

[Keith Chapman]

, so just waiting on the Post Office to deliver a new oil temp sender to see if that's the culprit.

I am ready to be proven wrong, but I would be supprised if the oil temp sender has anyting to do with how the bike runs, all it does is work the little bars on the RID. just to make you panic when they creep to 7 on a hot day stuck in city traffic.

You dont need a RID to tell you its getting warm .The rattle and clatter from the engine gives a clue.

 

[MattW]

I am ready to be proven wrong, but I would be supprised if the oil temp sender has anyting to do with how the bike runs, all it does is work the little bars on the RID. just to make you panic when they creep to 7 on a hot day stuck in city traffic.

You dont need a RID to tell you its getting warm .The rattle and clatter from the engine gives a clue.

How does the motronic know engine temperature so that it can adjust fuelling for cold starts etc then?

 

[dancata]

How does the motronic know engine temperature so that it can adjust fuelling for cold starts etc then?

from the temperature sensor inside the air filter

 

[MattW]

from the temperature sensor inside the air filter

That's air temperature, not engine temperature

 

[John Armstrong]

How does the motronic know engine temperature so that it can adjust fuelling for cold starts etc then?

From what I've read, it gets an oil temp signal, which will be proportional to engine temp (hopefully). Then there's the cold start / fast idle / choke lever to get the thing running. AFAIK

 

[MattW]

From what I've read, it gets an oil temp signal, which will be proportional to engine temp (hopefully). Then there's the cold start / fast idle / choke lever to get the thing running. AFAIK

That's what I thought