Traction Control Yes or NO
- Thread starter CliveS
- Start date
kiwiAdventure
Registered user
What I read is ESA has two modes of springing which can each be combined with one of three suspension modes.
This will be more than enough for me.
Progress has never been a smooth progression. There have always been blind alleys or ideas that were too far ahead of their time for the customer or for the available technology.
FWIW the RT has 9 options on the ESA. It sounds as if the GSA version is more sophisticated so there could well be more than that.
OK, OK.........have to agree, I hated the 'electric brakes'.....but I am not sure anyone asked for them - I think BMW came up with that one all on their own.
As for tyre pressure monitors, I reckon I can feel if I have a leak - besides if you want them they can be very easily added. ESA on the other hand I find very appealing as I am always changing the load on the bike - you know how it goes...........a quick blast up the road for an hour without panniers, wife jumps on the back, loaded with camping gear - loaded with shopping (so that's a ride in one direction unloaded, and a ride in the other direction loaded). Of course BMWs invention of the remote preload adjuster on the 1100 (now copied by so many others) was a big step in the right direction - only now they have put it on the right side so you can't adjust whilst riding! I do like the idea of ESA!
Backmarker
Registered user
Jon, dont get me wrong, I love the idea of ESA.
I bought a Konica Minolta 7D when eveyone was recommending Canon or Nikon cameras. I bought it almost purely because whilst Canon and Nikon were producing cameras (at that price level) with dials on the top that had numerous 'scene modes': A mode for portrait, a mode for landscape, one for a party, one for night time etc etc. I couldn't use them, I could never work out what the camera was doing, The Konica Minolta 7D on the other hand, had the normal Manual, Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority, Program, and then modes 1, 2 and 3.
You programed these yourself. I use aperture priority in most ordinary circumstances, I set up the 'special modes' for what I do that requires significant adjustment.
1 was set to f8, ISO 100, White balance to Flash,Exposure comp (flash) to minus 2/3rds.
2 was set to ISO 400, flash plus exposure comp minus 1.5, exposure comp minus 2.
3 was set to f (as wide as possible), ISO 3200, Exposure comp minus one, Flash disabled, spot metering, centre weighted exposure.
(I know because I have just had to reenter the settings following a repair).
The point I am trying to make is:
I have settings for the bike solo on my commute. I have settings for loaded up solo, for unladen with pillion, for very laden and pillion (and travelling flat out on Motorways) and for very overladen and pillion (for travelling flat out on tight and twisty stuff, inc dirt.)
If ESA allowed me to pre programme 3 basic settings (of my choice) and then fine tune with a click here and a click there, then I would have it without a doubt. But my understanding, and someone please tell me I am wrong, is you just cant do that.The Pillion setting is BMW's best guess at your needs when carrying a pillion, not your own settings.
And yes, I admit my settings are rarely what others would choose (my last RoSPA observer described watching me as like watching a 'blamange riding a jelly' - so I guess I like my settings softer than average), but that is the point. It takes me but a couple of minutes to set the bike up for anyride, and I can tweak at any stop (although rarely do).
But I do not want the BMW defined 'Solo, Pillion. Pillion plus Luggage etc etc et al' settings any more than I want camera settings set to 'Portrait, Landscape, Night ...etc etc'
It misses the point: Laden with Pillion from Calais to Tarifa in July I used one set of settings. Laden with (the same pillion and kit) from Oslo to the Nordkapp in May I used a different set of settings.
Last time I asked at the dealer, I was told ESA just had the one set of settings for 'laden with pillion and luggage'.
If this is not so, then I would love to be enlightened.
I bought a Konica Minolta 7D when eveyone was recommending Canon or Nikon cameras. I bought it almost purely because whilst Canon and Nikon were producing cameras (at that price level) with dials on the top that had numerous 'scene modes': A mode for portrait, a mode for landscape, one for a party, one for night time etc etc. I couldn't use them, I could never work out what the camera was doing, The Konica Minolta 7D on the other hand, had the normal Manual, Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority, Program, and then modes 1, 2 and 3.
You programed these yourself. I use aperture priority in most ordinary circumstances, I set up the 'special modes' for what I do that requires significant adjustment.
1 was set to f8, ISO 100, White balance to Flash,Exposure comp (flash) to minus 2/3rds.
2 was set to ISO 400, flash plus exposure comp minus 1.5, exposure comp minus 2.
3 was set to f (as wide as possible), ISO 3200, Exposure comp minus one, Flash disabled, spot metering, centre weighted exposure.
(I know because I have just had to reenter the settings following a repair).
The point I am trying to make is:
I have settings for the bike solo on my commute. I have settings for loaded up solo, for unladen with pillion, for very laden and pillion (and travelling flat out on Motorways) and for very overladen and pillion (for travelling flat out on tight and twisty stuff, inc dirt.)
If ESA allowed me to pre programme 3 basic settings (of my choice) and then fine tune with a click here and a click there, then I would have it without a doubt. But my understanding, and someone please tell me I am wrong, is you just cant do that.The Pillion setting is BMW's best guess at your needs when carrying a pillion, not your own settings.
And yes, I admit my settings are rarely what others would choose (my last RoSPA observer described watching me as like watching a 'blamange riding a jelly' - so I guess I like my settings softer than average), but that is the point. It takes me but a couple of minutes to set the bike up for anyride, and I can tweak at any stop (although rarely do).
But I do not want the BMW defined 'Solo, Pillion. Pillion plus Luggage etc etc et al' settings any more than I want camera settings set to 'Portrait, Landscape, Night ...etc etc'
It misses the point: Laden with Pillion from Calais to Tarifa in July I used one set of settings. Laden with (the same pillion and kit) from Oslo to the Nordkapp in May I used a different set of settings.
Last time I asked at the dealer, I was told ESA just had the one set of settings for 'laden with pillion and luggage'.
If this is not so, then I would love to be enlightened.
OK, clearly you know a lot more about camers than I do - something I intend to correct in the not too distant future............
As for ESA - seems you know more about that than I as well - I had not really looked into it - I assumes that one could remotely adjust to what ever settings one wanted. I didn't realise that the adjustment range was so restricted.
So, I love the idea of ESA, just not the apparent reality!
As for ESA - seems you know more about that than I as well - I had not really looked into it - I assumes that one could remotely adjust to what ever settings one wanted. I didn't realise that the adjustment range was so restricted.
So, I love the idea of ESA, just not the apparent reality!
conncarr
Guest
ESA etc
I used to have a bike with full Ohlins, and alternated between solo riding (10 stone wet) and two up, fully loaded with heavier pillion. I bought the Ohlins to compensate for the load variation and they worked very well. I was doubtfull that ESA would be able to provide settings to suit. However, after test rides I did buy a bike with ESA, and the nine possible combinations did cope admirable with the load variations. Comfort mode was very plush on the autobahns, normal was ok for medium speeds on "A"roads, and sport mode made a very big difference when we wanted to be silly on twisty roads.
The bike also had heated seats, grips, cruise control, ABS etc, etc, and I used and enjoyed all of them when circumstances dictated.
I have spun up the back a couple of times, once on black ice, and once on a slick bit of tarmac. Fortunately I was vertical at the time, but the one on the black ice I only realised because of the revs rising too fast. There was no spinning feeling on the bike. The "traction control" option would definately have been of benefit in that situation.
My current 12GS doesn't have ESA, traction control, heated seats or even heated grips. It wasn't a concious decision NOT to have them, they just weren't on the bike which I chose to buy. If they were there I would use them and be grateful for them. As they are not, I ride accordingly.
So......... IMHO if you can afford the technology, buy it. It will make your riding safer and more enjoyable. If you can't afford it or don't happen to have it, ride accordingly. It's probably safe to assume that anyone who is riding a 1000+ cc bike has at least rudimentary riding skills, so just get out there and ride wot you got
Happy Christmas everyone
I used to have a bike with full Ohlins, and alternated between solo riding (10 stone wet) and two up, fully loaded with heavier pillion. I bought the Ohlins to compensate for the load variation and they worked very well. I was doubtfull that ESA would be able to provide settings to suit. However, after test rides I did buy a bike with ESA, and the nine possible combinations did cope admirable with the load variations. Comfort mode was very plush on the autobahns, normal was ok for medium speeds on "A"roads, and sport mode made a very big difference when we wanted to be silly on twisty roads.
The bike also had heated seats, grips, cruise control, ABS etc, etc, and I used and enjoyed all of them when circumstances dictated.
I have spun up the back a couple of times, once on black ice, and once on a slick bit of tarmac. Fortunately I was vertical at the time, but the one on the black ice I only realised because of the revs rising too fast. There was no spinning feeling on the bike. The "traction control" option would definately have been of benefit in that situation.
My current 12GS doesn't have ESA, traction control, heated seats or even heated grips. It wasn't a concious decision NOT to have them, they just weren't on the bike which I chose to buy. If they were there I would use them and be grateful for them. As they are not, I ride accordingly.
So......... IMHO if you can afford the technology, buy it. It will make your riding safer and more enjoyable. If you can't afford it or don't happen to have it, ride accordingly. It's probably safe to assume that anyone who is riding a 1000+ cc bike has at least rudimentary riding skills, so just get out there and ride wot you got
Happy Christmas everyone
sultan3458
Guest
NO
NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO!!!!! NO TYPE OF CONTROL, OR ASSISTANCE OF ANY KIND. ELECTRONIC AIDS HAVE DESTROYED MOTORSPORT, AND THEY WILL DESTROY YOUR RIDING PLEASURE AND BANK BALANCE. (PAYING FOR THEM AND WHEN THEY INVARIABLY BREAK). JUST BLOODY NO!
NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO!!!!! NO TYPE OF CONTROL, OR ASSISTANCE OF ANY KIND. ELECTRONIC AIDS HAVE DESTROYED MOTORSPORT, AND THEY WILL DESTROY YOUR RIDING PLEASURE AND BANK BALANCE. (PAYING FOR THEM AND WHEN THEY INVARIABLY BREAK). JUST BLOODY NO!
What an amusing thread.
Call me old fashioned, but I can imagine the riders of 10years hence, having only ridden bikes with all the "aids" fitted being absolutely crap attempting to ride a two wheeled vehicle with no such cosseting extras.
Call me old fashioned, but I can imagine the riders of 10years hence, having only ridden bikes with all the "aids" fitted being absolutely crap attempting to ride a two wheeled vehicle with no such cosseting extras.
ART
Guest
I tend to agree with both your statements. However, assuming they will never ride anything that does not have 'extra everything' on the aid side ... just how is this a bad thing?
(Oh. Hi, by the way, this is my first post here...
)
herrdirektor
Registered user
I wonder what planet you're from ?To the TS:
ASC can be somewhat crude, but together with ABS can prevent you from crashing when your mind goes numb in an extreme situation or by making a silly mistake. Happens to all of us sooner or later.
Even if it would intervene only once, you will probably have earned your money back.
You can decide for yourself to use it or not, or simply switch it off, if you want to afford the extra's. Since most of the new bikes are ordered with most of the available options and owners of those bikes are primarily quite happy with the extra's, I would not listen to claims that nothing works and all is worthless. If you can afford it, get it and decide for yourself.
: If you can afford it, get it and decide for yourself.
To late to decide once you've got it
herrdirektor
Registered user
Hm Steptoe, ever heard of the Off Switch ? Not that I heard anyone turning his electronic farkles Off indefinately. Just off-road.
Not that I heard anyone turning his electronic farkles Off indefinately. Just off-road.
I'll never buy a new bike.
When i buy them secondhand, out of warranty, i need a bike that doesn't need more than the purchase cost to have it fixed at a main dealer.
So i need people to buy them without the bells and whistles so i can have something in the future .
So the more electronic help on a bike, the harder it'll be to sell it when it's a few years old.
When i buy them secondhand, out of warranty, i need a bike that doesn't need more than the purchase cost to have it fixed at a main dealer.
So i need people to buy them without the bells and whistles so i can have something in the future .
So the more electronic help on a bike, the harder it'll be to sell it when it's a few years old.
herrdirektor
Registered user
I think you do have a point there, Steptoe. After all, I wouldn't risk my life of buying a 1990 K1 with the original ABS still on it. I conclude with stating that if you can afford the farkles, just get them. I'm pretty convinced about the latest versions of ABS and much less sure about ASC. The extra investment for ASC however, hardy compares to the horrible total price of the GSA. That is why I ordered the 2008 with all the extra's, except this ESA thingy. (The only addition I found to be niche, since the same adjustments can be made manually)
Technology constantly advances and becomes more reliable, look how ABS is now practically standard on all cars, its not seen as exceptional. The hardware and software is now much more reliable than it used to be.
So you're either a guinea pig for the latest technology (say canbus) or benefit from others experience (say the return of non-servo ABS).
The ABS only has to work once for it to be worth the extra cost!!
So you're either a guinea pig for the latest technology (say canbus) or benefit from others experience (say the return of non-servo ABS).
The ABS only has to work once for it to be worth the extra cost!!
Technology constantly advances and becomes more reliable, look how ABS is now practically standard on all cars, its not seen as exceptional. The hardware and software is now much more reliable than it used to be.
So you're either a guinea pig for the latest technology (say canbus) or benefit from others experience (say the return of non-servo ABS).
The ABS only has to work once for it to be worth the extra cost!!
Or fail once to cost the extra
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