Pointless electronics

[Engineer]

As a point of interest where in the spectrum of modes is your bike? As you are the only one that appears to have a more standard bike?

Have you test ridden the ones with the fancy electronics? How do they compare?

Looking towards the new ADV when it appears...

I don't know what the 'equivalent' mode of the standard bike is, maybe it is not any of the other modes and has a mapping all of its own???. All I know is that it doesn't surge, isn't snatchy or twitchy or anything like that, compared to my old twin-can it feels better if I rev it a bit more in first gear before I change up into second but other than that the throttle response feels extremely natural.

I haven't ridden the fancy suspension model yet, hoping to take one out when mine goes in for its 6,000 service so that I can make a comparison.

There seem to be few people with the standard bike in the UK, but many more in other countries - we seem to have been seduced by the extra bling in the UK for some reason.

I chose the standard bike with heated grips and panniers as the only extras because I ride almost every day of the year and feel that I have enough experience not to need the safety net of traction control etc also I want to keep the maintenance costs down.

The handling and performance of this bike is more than good enough without the extra complication of dynamic suspension etc, but if you like that stuff don't let me talk you out of it.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

I don't know what the 'equivalent' mode of the standard bike is, maybe it is not any of the other modes and has a mapping all of its own???. All I know is that it doesn't surge, isn't snatchy or twitchy or anything like that, compared to my old twin-can it feels better if I rev it a bit more in first gear before I change up into second but other than that the throttle response feels extremely natural.

I haven't ridden the fancy suspension model yet, hoping to take one out when mine goes in for its 6,000 service so that I can make a comparison.

There seem to be few people with the standard bike in the UK, but many more in other countries - we seem to have been seduced by the extra bling in the UK for some reason.

I chose the standard bike with heated grips and panniers as the only extras because I ride almost every day of the year and feel that I have enough experience not to need the safety net of traction control etc also I want to keep the maintenance costs down.

The handling and performance of this bike is more than good enough without the extra complication of dynamic suspension etc, but if you like that stuff don't let me talk you out of it.

A very sensible answer

 

[Jumblemo]

I don't see anyone getting pissed off here at all. Its a new bike and people are giving their opinions on it. That's all - opinions. They're not being critical of you so don't take it personally or feel you have to justify your buying decisions. I don't think any GS is better than any other GS - they mean different things to different people and each is great in its own way. What's better for you is worse for someone else. Since you don't have any history of GS's prior to March this year (or BMW's for that matter) or the people who buy and ride them, you could help yourself by being a bit more openminded about things in general and maybe accept sometimes that others have a different view on things than you do.

For myself, I've got a bit more life to get out of my Hexhead GSA just yet. Mine's got all the bells and whistles that you can get on an '08. One thing that has taught me is which one's to go for if and when I buy an LC. I'm waiting for the GSA version and some history on reliability and the practicalities of self service which is important to me. Having just had a weekend away with some friends on sportsbike's I know for sure my wheezy lump with a remap and open headers doesn't need any more power so that's not a buying decision for me. In my mind the increase in statistical power the LC has over previous generations is a distraction...it means very little on the roads, as you use whatever you have in whatever way you want.

And as if on cue here's a prime example. Bless. Lol

 

[Beemerman59]

And as if on cue here's a prime example. Bless. Lol

I guess there are some people who just can't be helped

 

[Flipfly]

There you go again.... it sounds like it's all down your addled old brain not being able to cope with advancing technology

ABS ad ASC can be turned off you know

I still find it odd that for someone who is so against this latest model, you spend an awful lot of time in here. If you don't like it that's fine everyone has a choice, but why feel the need to belittle those that do.

I'm not trying to upset anyone Paul, just putting forward my view point having ridden the bike for myself. With all the gubbins turned off it's actually a nice bike. It handles sweetly, and as I said, I don't believe there are any stability issues with the actual bike, but I could envisage a situation where the electronics could cause a small head shake to be worse than it would be.

I agree, ABS etc can be turned off, and if there is a non ASC/ESA version available, maybe I need to find one of those to have a go on to change my mind. But why have all that electrickery just to turn it all off?

As it is, the bike I rode was not the great leap forward that you guys believe it to be imho. Yes it's fast for a GS, but at no point did it set my pants on fire with it's awesomeness.

Those who have bought them and are happy, congratulations. May you have many a pleasant journey on your new steed.
I will continue to choose my own destiny, just don't assume that I look upon you with envious eyes, because I'll be looking at an 800GSA before I buy a new 1200LC

 

[Paul G (BHT)]

.... But why have all that electrickery just to turn it all off?

So that those with addled brains can do just that

.... I'll be looking at an 800GSA before I buy a new 1200LC

Just make sure you don't test one with ASC, or else you'll be getting all confused once again

 

[Wreford Miles]

....just because I express an opinion it does not mean I agree with it

 

[Steptoe]

May I suggest it's because this bike REALLY pisses them off. Look at it from their position. Sitting happy with a bike that had its merits and was ok as far as it's the Adventure sector goes. And then comes along a bike that moves the needle and also attracts buyers from across the biking spectrum.

Most owners of the prior model will just welcome the new interest and get on with their biking, a few will trade up. But, there's a bitter few, no names, who just can't help feeling intense irritation and so spend an unhealthy amount of time trying to find a reason to claim the old model is superior. Strongest one so far seems to be indicator switch gear...

He hooked you first cast. .

 

[alp]

....just because I express an opinion it does not mean I agree with it

Now I'm beginning to understand his posts!!!! They're for entertainment, but that's ok, now we know.

 

[Wreford Miles]

Now I'm beginning to understand his posts!!!! They're for entertainment, but that's ok, now we know.

I'd like to think they contain some substance and alternative thought... and for the record if I had the need to buy a do it all bike of course I'd buy an LC.

That does not stop me questioning some of the new gizmo's and which side of the marketing worth v real worth line they sit.

 

[Jumblemo]

He hooked you first cast. .

I think not. He's been frustrated at the barbs since our launch party.

 

[Fanum]

Now I'm beginning to understand his posts!!!! They're for entertainment, but that's ok, now we know.

I think there's a lot that the 'new GS owner' bunch here do NOT understand TBH.

The toilet is undoubtedly a great bike, but the fact that it's being compared now to mainstream road bikes, even to sports bikes and sports tourers, is a bit of a give away to some of us.

Great bike, yes
Good at everything it does, yes.

The problem is (for a lot of us) though, it IS NOT a GS, in the way that we have come to think of a GS.

That doesn't alter how good it is, nor how much people who have bought one should feel about it, but somehow there's a 'spirit' or 'feel' that's not right (to a previous GS model owner) and has been lost.

Once upon a time, if someone asked how they could tune their GS to go faster, the answer was that they had probably bought the wrong bike if speed was what they were concerned about.

The same for long distance two up comfortable weatherproof touring.

Now though, the BMW marketing people have tried to slot the toilet into a place where it's attracting sports tourer riders and sports bike riders in to their showrooms......quite right too, it's their job, and the sales figures and profit lines will show that they have done a good job.

There's still something missing though.......something that a proud new owner who has only just come to the marque, or had a 1200 before for similar reasons and has just 'upgraded' will never be able to understand.

It's fairly pointless to try and explain it as well, 'cos they just don't 'get it'.....instead, they see comments as ludditism, criticism and even as personal attacks, altogether missing the point........The Toilet is better than any GS before it in all of the measures that can be conventionally applied to a bike, but it still lacks something that can't be measured.....the essence and heart of a GS.

IMHO.

 

[alp]

I'd like to think they contain some substance and alternative thought... and for the record if I had the need to buy a do it all bike of course I'd buy an LC.

That does not stop me questioning some of the new gizmo's and which side of the marketing worth v real worth line they sit.

Can't argue with that.

 

[alp]

I think there's a lot that the 'new GS owner' bunch here do NOT understand TBH.

The problem is (for a lot of us) though, it IS NOT a GS, in the way that we have come to think of a GS.

That doesn't alter how good it is, nor how much people who have bought one should feel about it, but somehow there's a 'spirit' or 'feel' that's not right (to a previous GS model owner) and has been lost.


Now though, the BMW marketing people have tried to slot the toilet into a place where it's attracting sports tourer riders and sports bike riders in to their showrooms......quite right too, it's their job, and the sales figures and profit lines will show that they have done a good job.

There's still something missing though.......something that a proud new owner who has only just come to the marque, or had a 1200 before for similar reasons and has just 'upgraded' will never be able to understand.

It's fairly pointless to try and explain it as well, 'cos they just don't 'get it'.....instead, they see comments as ludditism, criticism and even as personal attacks, altogether missing the point........The Toilet is better than any GS before it in all of the measures that can be conventionally applied to a bike, but it still lacks something that can't be measured.....the essence and heart of a GS.

IMHO.

Yep, you're right, if it was just a tarted up version of the previous GSs, I for one wouldn't be on the latest GS.
Whatever it was that attracted you, and thousands of others, to the previous versions actually must have been in the mix of why I didn't ever convert test rides to GS ownership.
I have had some great bikes meanwhile and many great experiences, including Italian bikes (I still own a Ducati 999S), and competed in Enduros on more suitable bikes for off road that the GS.
Maybe though if you stopped using the expression 'toilet' we could accept that you are just giving an honest opinion and nothing else? Just a thought.

 

[Flipfly]

Bill, ride the new one with all the electrics on and tell me then that it's a great bike

Underneath all the gizmos there is a decent bike, not a GS more of an S, but a decent bike nevertheless. With all the fandangos turned on, it is feckin awful to ride imho, it completely ruins the ride (IMHO).

You should try it for yourself.

I'm not here to slag of the new bike, I really would like to have a go on an non gizmo version because I think that, if they have a decent throttle map, it really could be a good bike. If I were to order one, that would be the spec I'd have and no doubt the one that will be the cheapest secondhand in a few years

I think you guys are too sensitive to any critisism. I know my old dog is a dinosaur, but hey ho, it does what it needs to do to bring a smile to my face. I'm sure your LC's are all fandabydosey.
How anyone can defend a bike that by default kicks the ASC in on a perfectly dry road with no hint of anything more than about an inch of air under the front wheel is beyond me though
If I wanted to appeal to sportsbike riders, it should have allowed at least a foot and a half before hitting the panic stations

Be careful what you waste your money on when you spec the bike, that's the main message

 

[bod]

I think there's a lot that the 'new GS owner' bunch here do NOT understand TBH.

The toilet is undoubtedly a great bike, but the fact that it's being compared now to mainstream road bikes, even to sports bikes and sports tourers, is a bit of a give away to some of us.

Great bike, yes
Good at everything it does, yes.

The problem is (for a lot of us) though, it IS NOT a GS, in the way that we have come to think of a GS.

That doesn't alter how good it is, nor how much people who have bought one should feel about it, but somehow there's a 'spirit' or 'feel' that's not right (to a previous GS model owner) and has been lost.

Once upon a time, if someone asked how they could tune their GS to go faster, the answer was that they had probably bought the wrong bike if speed was what they were concerned about.

The same for long distance two up comfortable weatherproof touring.

Now though, the BMW marketing people have tried to slot the toilet into a place where it's attracting sports tourer riders and sports bike riders in to their showrooms......quite right too, it's their job, and the sales figures and profit lines will show that they have done a good job.

There's still something missing though.......something that a proud new owner who has only just come to the marque, or had a 1200 before for similar reasons and has just 'upgraded' will never be able to understand.

It's fairly pointless to try and explain it as well, 'cos they just don't 'get it'.....instead, they see comments as ludditism, criticism and even as personal attacks, altogether missing the point........The Toilet is better than any GS before it in all of the measures that can be conventionally applied to a bike, but it still lacks something that can't be measured.....the essence and heart of a GS.

IMHO.

It's because it's the perfection of an icon - and perfection has no heart & soul as Honda found out.

 

[Paul G (BHT)]

.... The Toilet is better than any GS before it in all of the measures that can be conventionally applied to a bike, but it still lacks something that can't be measured.....the essence and heart of a GS.

Back in 1994 when the Oilheads came out the die hard Airhead GS fans probably said something similar.... a GS with fuel injection and ABS, pah that just isn't right

 

[Giles]

Well .....

I have spent all day in (driving) a Seat Cupra R hot hatch. (265 BHP).

What a pain in the arse and it made me think fondly of this thread.

And it was a pain in the arse, because there was only one mode - mental.

The revs kicked in like a two stroke, the gearing was very short (great for acceleration but no lazy long gears) and it was sprung like a roller-skate. Great fun for an hour; a quick overtake?? Bang - dispatched in the blink of an eye, nothing on the motorway junction roundabout? Screeeeech all the way around it - wow, handles like a dream .... but after a while .... Feck me it became tedious. Every where I went the motor was like a animal the Muppet show drummer, there was simply nothing calm and quiet about this car.


Your new GS has all that at hand in its dynamic mode. And for those occasions that you do want to go a bit mental, have that razor sharp throttle, be a bit of a hooligan, scratch it with yer mates and pop the front up coming out of a roundabout ... you've got it

But Unlike the Cupra, you can pick and choose yer style too

So JB says that if he bought this bike, he'd ride it in rain mode all the time. (snigger ). Well to be fair to him, and all joking aside - that to me is the beauty of the 'pointless electronics' on this bike. We can all buy the same bike, and morph it how we want; from nutter bastard with all the safety on to cruising old timer (thats you JB) to nutter bastard with all the traction control / anti wheelie stuff turned off. The choice is all yours.

Many months ago I was having a long chat with my local Honda dealer who was singing the praises of the beautifully engineered VFR1200. He was (politely) bashing the Multistrada (which had then not long been out) saying that fancy electronics were a one trick wonder - you'd use it for 48 hours, and then settle into one mode and never touch it again. This he argued, didn't trump good old fashioned engine engineering. Well, yeah.. I know what he's saying about a bloody well engineered motor (that the VF1200 is..), and when it comes to things like Gixxer thousands, I completely agree with him - Why the feck have three different mapping modes on a bike like that? If it's wet than I completely agree with Flip - it's all about throttle control in yer right wrist. But with this bike - a bike that's branded and universally accepted as being a bit of an all rounder, different modes make absolute sense.

If I want Seat Cupra mode, I've got it. If I want wheelie mode, I'll turn off the TCS, and if I want Fanum's 'something missing' mode, (the very 'can't put it into words' thing that you old skool boys are banging on about), I can still have that too - rain mode ain't to ridiculed at on this bike. On a gixxer, yes - bloody stupid. But here? Rename 'rain' mode as 'traditional' mode, 'je ne sais quoi' mode, 'something missing' mode.

Come on .... We've got a bike for every body here haven't we ..

And better still, we've got a bike for every mood too.

Sigh ... right ... It's six O'clock ... time for a large Gin ....

 

[Fanum]

Back in 1994 when the Oilheads came out the die hard Airhead GS fans probably said something similar.... a GS with fuel injection and ABS, pah that just isn't right

Everyone has a line that they set out in their own minds concerning the boundaries of all sorts of things.

The GS is no exception.

I have never argued that the new LC GS isn't a better bike in any measurable way than any other previous incarnation.....It would be foolish to do so, as speed, acceleration, torque, power to weight ratios, even the subjective value of 'looks' in terms of being modern looking, it all says that it's a better bike.

It's also a very different bike, and for me at least, it doesn't deserve the name of the spirit and feelings, the heritage built up around the 'GS'

If you like it, great, (I do as well, as an allrounder bike) and I sincerely hope that you and all the other toilet riders thoroughly enjoy your new bikes, but the incremental 'improvements' to the ideal of the Gelande Strasse has for me, at least, gone too far away from what it means with this new model.

It's not only the toilet 'GS' by the way.......I feel the same about the latest couple of incarnations of the Land Rover Defender....when they put in plush plastics, luxury interiors and engines/drivetrains that made them civilised and a real pleasure to drive, they stopped being Defenders in everything but name.....they're now just boxier cheaper versions of the Range Rover.

There are probably a dozen other examples of things that have been 'improved' on so much that the original feeling of the item/marque has been lost, and I have never slagged off the toilet, i really DO think it's a great bike, but I do not think it's a GS in anything other than its name.

 

[Jumblemo]

i really DO think it's a great bike, but I do not think it's a GS in anything other than its name.

I totally agree with you. I would much rather it wasn't called a GS too. The GS that I've steered clear of for years is a wheezy asthmatic agricultural heavy dull old bike owned by 60+ year old pipe and slipper wielding real ale addled old bores.

This bike is serious, sorted and a blast for hooning on (just as soon as its fitted with a decent pipe).

They are different.