RISE NOW AND BE A NATION AGAIN !

[Schtum]

Let's flip the question round. If Scotland is so worthless and incapable then why do all the better together parties want to keep us? Why not just cut us loose and be done with it.

I asked Gerry that on the previous page. The silence was deafening.

 

[Deleted account 190920001]

Just checked the register because I wasn't sure before but the is no such party as Scottish libdems registered either.

And there lies a problem in the current Scottish government. The other 3 major so called Scottish parties aren't Scottish at all but only a branch of the Westminster parties. Actually I am not sure the Scottish conservative party should be classed as major. More pandas and all that.

 

[Deleted account 210516001]

Let's flip the question round. If Scotland is so worthless and incapable then why do all the better together parties want to keep us? Why not just cut us loose and be done with it.

Oh and Alex isn't a main stream politician? He is the first minister unless of course you want to get rid of devolution as well.

I don't think Scotland is worthless or incapable and I am sure that properly governed it can be very prosperous. That is why the UK government does not want to cut it loose. They key is in the properly governed bit. An independent Scotland would in the first few elections be governed by a socialist party that proposes all the same solutions that got the UK into the mess it is in now, borrow your way out of trouble, boost public sector non jobs and tax any spare cash that people have earned. Add to that the cost of duplicating functions of government we currently share with the UK, embassies, government ministries and government agencies and throw in the uncertainties about even what currency we will use and our status in the EU and you have an economic disaster on your hands.

I hope this lifts the deafening silence for you although I am sure Gerry has answered this in his previous posts, or do you only read stuff that is cut and pasted?

 

[gerarddwatts]

It's always nice to meet someone with an open mind, Gerry..... I appreciate that your game is that you want to prove that you're not able to be convinced but honestly, it'd be much simpler just to accept that you can't be and give up any pretence, wouldn't it...?

No. Of course I can't be convinced, and never will be, because its wrong for us and the country. In that respect, I do not have an open mind....I don't need one to see the folly of independence, in the same way I don't need an open mind to see the folly of the the disastrous tax and spend economic policies of the labour party. And you are right, I could never be convinced....who's pretending??

There are some compelling reasons for independence....but not compelling enough. However, if you are to give reasons for explaining why 'mainstream politicians' are not supporting independence, for example, ' Because they all have vested interests in maintaining the status quo. It's obvious, isn't it...?' then you should be prepared to explain what you mean to those who find it not obvious at all, or it all becomes part of the endless bluster and soundbites that stream from the independence camp. Meaningless twaddle. Sorry.

Nobody has said Scotland is worthless and incapable....again more hysteria and twaddle. What are worthless and incapable are those who will by default lead Scotland after independence, and thats the problem. Scotland is far from worthless and incapable, and is far better exploiting those virtues by being part of a world class and successful union.

 

[Packer]

Because they all have vested interests in maintaining the status quo. It's obvious, isn't it...?

Do you include Salmond in that as well? It would appear to be outrageous deceit on his and the SNP's part to be talking about independence when they are not proposing anything of the kind but pursuing their "vested interests".

 

[Packer]

Let's flip the question round. If Scotland is so worthless and incapable then why do all the better together parties want to keep us? Why not just cut us loose and be done with it.

As far as I can recall nobody is saying that Scotland is either worthless or incapable. The key question is can Scotland generate enough profit to stand alone and support the entire infrastructure required for an independent state, eventually without oil revenue? If the answer is demonstrably yes the next question is can the electorate demonstrate political aspirations which will ensure a stable successful country in the long term? Would Scotland as an independent country survive the current love affair with socialism that has been so destructive for the UK as a whole. On that subject I'm still waiting for someone to suggest countries that are shining beacons of socialist governed success.

Oh and Alex isn't a main stream politician? He is the first minister unless of course you want to get rid of devolution as well.

Has anyone suggested that he isn't mainstream? I think not. There again he isn't proposing true independence either. If he believed that Scotland could be successful as a truly independent country do you not think that he would be campaigning for that and using Norway as a model?

Would it not be more sensible to enhance the level of devolution? If Scotland can be as successful as the Yes camp suggest full devolution whilst remaining under the umbrella of the UK would result in a dynamic Scotland generating wealth, influence and power. You could look forward to lending money to Westminster to support the weaker part of the UK, at suitable interest rates of course.

 

[gerarddwatts]

I completely recognise that there are those who genuinely believe in independence, and who will never change their minds, just as I do not, and will never change mine.

The disadvantages of 'independence' as promoted by the SNP are so many and so profound, that it is vital that these major flaws are pointed out, loudly and strongly, to those who are undecided, in order that they are persuaded to vote with their heads and not with their hearts, and prevent Scotland from marching by default into a significantly worse economic and political position than now. Of course everything is not perfect now, Scotland must continue to use its position in one of the most successful political unions ever to improve 'our' lot. We cannot do that by sacrificing our place at the table on the altar of 'faux' independence and its SNP proponents. There is just too much at stake to 'wing' it, with no real plans at all, as they would have us do.

 

[Gav]

"one of the most successful political unions"

Successful for whom?? And as for too much at stake, isn't that the case if the country stays in this union? Why do you despise Scotland so much? I'm curious.

 

[Gav]

You are suggesting that the electorate should vote with their heads and not their hearts. Do you assume that we will take this as meaning that using your head means voting no? It doesn’t take Mr Spock to make me realise that this is illogical. Voting to prevent my own country from controlling its own affairs and being on an equal footing with other independent countries? That’s using my head, is it? And if you are implying that voting yes means you are voting with your heart, isn’t that better than the heartless option (your own implication) of deliberately voting against your own country’s political freedom?

 

[Deleted account 190920002]

I'm sorry gav but we are part of a country, Britain. When we had our fish processing factory in Eyemouth in the eighties and nineties we had staff from Berwick as well as the borders no way did anyone look on those Scots and those brits it would be stupid we all worked together. The fact is our fishing industry is very dependant on working together. And, our fish stocks will be around when mr oil is long gone. Just sad that there is so much disagreement as all the current news shows there is a heck of a lot of much worse things going on in the wide world. We need each other that's how I feel anyway.

 

[Blackal]

I'm sorry gav but we are part of a country, Britain. When we had our fish processing factory in Eyemouth in the eighties and nineties we had staff from Berwick as well as the borders no way did anyone look on those Scots and those brits it would be stupid we all worked together. The fact is our fishing industry is very dependant on working together. And, our fish stocks will be around when mr oil is long gone. Just sad that there is so much disagreement as all the current news shows there is a heck of a lot of much worse things going on in the wide world. We need each other that's how I feel anyway.

Hah! Don't get me started on fish stocks and fishermen!

It's only by severe regulation that the fishermen haven't decimated all stocks already!

I've yet to see a crude tanker dump a cargo, because the captain thinks he can pick up a better cargo!

Al

 

[Deleted account 190920002]

Blackal I would like to correct your comments on stocks. When we entered the eu we opened up our inshore waters to our eu family. The French, Spanish, Dutch, et al. The effect of this enlarged fishing effort certainly created a heavy toll on the stocks. The dumping was a eu directive which all our Scots skippers thought madness. Also letting the Danish boats catch huge quantities of sand eels for fish meal which was madness has had dire results for sea birds and pelagic species that feed on them. I must say I found our fishermen very concerned with the fisheries management of the eu.

 

[Deleted account 210516001]

"one of the most successful political unions"

Successful for whom?? And as for too much at stake, isn't that the case if the country stays in this union? Why do you despise Scotland so much? I'm curious.

Why does trying to stop your country committing economic suicide mean that you despise your country? I despise what a socialist government did to my country under Gordon Brown and I despise what it has cost and will continue costing to put us back on track economically.

Where is the money coming from to set up a Scottish DVLA, a Scottish financial regulatory authority, a Scottish Foreign Office, a Scottish Revenue and Customs, a Scottish Security service, a Scottish Ministry of defence. All these institutions will require their own headquarters and associated staff costs where at the moment the Scottish tax payer only funds a proportion of the UK costs. If you make one country into two and have to duplicate all the associated costs both countries will lose out. That is Mr Spock logic not Mel Gibson fantasy.

 

[Toddy]

6 reasons for voting YES

......

 

[morty]

6 key Reasons my Arse.
1.More Jobs,does that mean zero hour contracts & part time work at less than a living wage ratio?
2.Universal Childcare,what a load of bollocks.why should we subsidise folk who want kids?.As for the Nuclear debate,it appears that its wee eck’s way or the highway.There’s nothing wrong with keeping them or the jobs they provide.
3.Do you really think we will eradicate the class division from people who work hard from the folk who expect everything for nothing?
4.The NHS,here’s an idea charge all the pissheads who create mayhem & end up there every week.(we can’t build a parliament building or create a tram service but you expect them to run a health service?)
5.A retirement service in line with Scotland’s needs, does that mean alot of scots will be retiring at 50yrs cos they’ll be dead by 55yrs?
6.Vast oil wealth?What are they going to do after 20-30yrs as its costing more and more & it’s not an unlimited supply(to benefit future generations,talking out your arse there)
So what else have you got apart from click & paste nat-shite??perhaps a brain is a bridge too far.

 

[Toddy]

Another very good reason to vote YES

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/mod-wants-to-dump-radioactive-waste-into-clyde.23699238

 

[Ross Dean]

Nationalism - stoked up by those who want power to fool the people into following them and exploited by those in power to keep themselves there. Its people that count, not countries

 

[Toddy]

Scotland isn't different, it's Britain that's bizarre

http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkin...land-isnt-different-its-britain-thats-bizarre

 

[Gav]

If you make one country into two and have to duplicate all the associated costs both countries will lose out.

Eh? I don’t know what you’re referring to. I can assure you there are no plans to split the country up after we gain our independence. More scaremongering with absolutely no basis.

 

[gerarddwatts]

Eh? I don’t know what you’re referring to. I can assure you there are no plans to split the country up after we gain our independence. More scaremongering with absolutely no basis.

Currently....UK .....one country

Indie plans......Scotland, rest of UK.....two countries...

What do you not get??