Clutch mechanism failure (Again!)

Losttheplot · Sep 27, 2011

The clutch on my XC jammed up again on sunday, it's done less than 1000 miles since the last failure.

After it failed last time i replaced both shafts, and the bearings in the clutch cover (tricky job to do), and all seemed to be working fine.

then last sunday, out of the blue, it did it again.

Tonite i stripped the clutch cover off (eventually), and it has done the same damage as last time- both shafts have teeth broken off.

Scratching my head as to the cause, i noticed that the hole in the centre of the clutch cover has signs of wear, and when you put the shaft into this hole, there is significant movement in the direction that the teeth on both shafts mesh in.

Before i order a new clutch cover, along with the rest of the damaged parts, is there anything else i need to check?

nathan

powroll · Sep 28, 2011

Are the plates sticking or is there some roughness between the plates and the clutch basket during seperation, enough that the extra force has stripped these teeth.
The wear in the shaft cover not helping either I suspect as it may actuate the clutch off centre and bind the plates on the basket making things wear abnormally?
Its one of those replace all fixes as every part depends on the other.

Losttheplot · Sep 28, 2011

powroll said:
Are the plates sticking or is there some roughness between the plates and the clutch basket during seperation, enough that the extra force has stripped these teeth.

IIRC, The part of the clutch that is causing the problems doesn't actually "pull" on the plates, it just relieves the pressure from the centre hub- where all the springs are bolted on. It's this stored spring pressure that pushes all the plates together and makes the clutch drive.

I checked the clutch basket and the plates the last time i had it all apart, and there wasn't any signs of wear, or even discolouration.

I'm going to strip it all anyway just to check it over again...

rossi · Sep 29, 2011

Losttheplot said:
IIRC, The part of the clutch that is causing the problems doesn't actually "pull" on the plates, it just relieves the pressure from the centre hub- where all the springs are bolted on. It's this stored spring pressure that pushes all the plates together and makes the clutch drive.

I checked the clutch basket and the plates the last time i had it all apart, and there wasn't any signs of wear, or even discolouration.

I'm going to strip it all anyway just to check it over again...

Bad luck!

That would be the normal way for a motorcycle clutch to work. I remember somone having a clutch problem on ADVrider which also knackered the clutch cover affecting the shaft. Not sure whether it was the centre of the cover like yours or the hole through the top where the vertical shaft enters the case. I think they were able to get the hole enlarged and a bush inserted; there was certainly something about a modified part from the dealer. Worth checking out.

Losttheplot · Oct 1, 2011

Making progress...

It looks like this wear in the clutch cover is an issue after all.

Talking to the guys at vines, apparently BMW produce an alternative clutch cover, which has a steel insert pressed into the centre, unlike the standard cover which is just machined into the aluminium casting.

Now this alternative cover is not on the official parts system, but vines managed to track it down.

the part number i have on the invoice is:
C11.14.7.700.331
it costs £70 plus VAT.

The new shaft is a much snugger fit in the new clutch cover- and should stay that way.

It would be worth checking your own bike for signs of wear in the clutch cover, and replacing the cover before you wreck the shafts (and end up replacing the cover as well).

The 2 shafts alone will set you back around £70 plus vat, before you take into account the inconvenience caused through the failure, so it's worth changing the cover before this happens.

I'll post a photo as soon as it had uploaded..

Nathan

rossi · Oct 1, 2011

that was it.

Thanks for the information, sounds like cheap insurance for the rest of us. How many miles on your bike now? 30K on mine. Just wondering how long I have got left.

Losttheplot · Oct 1, 2011

rossi said:
that was it.

Thanks for the information, sounds like cheap insurance for the rest of us. How many miles on your bike now? 30K on mine. Just wondering how long I have got left.

Mine has less than 10k on it, with the exception of about 2k, the rest have been out on the trails where i change gear a lot more than in normal road conditions.

Apparently only some bikes are susceptible to it, which is why there hasn't been a general recall for this, but i'd still check anyway.

This is the bush, and where to check for wear on your current cover:

JohnnyBoxer · Oct 5, 2011

Just ordered the revised casing with the bush! Cheap preventative insurance @ £70 +vat. The F650GS casing all came with bushes, so why BMW thought it was a great idea to omit it on the G series, we'll never know

shugie · Oct 5, 2011

JohnnyBoxer said:
Just ordered the revised casing with the bush! Cheap preventative insurance @ £70 +vat. The F650GS casing all came with bushes, so why BMW thought it was a great idea to omit it on the G series, we'll never know

I think we do know. Much cheapness.

Losttheplot · Oct 5, 2011

JohnnyBoxer said:
Just ordered the revised casing with the bush! Cheap preventative insurance @ £70 +vat. The F650GS casing all came with bushes, so why BMW thought it was a great idea to omit it on the G series, we'll never know

There are a couple of needle bearings and a seal you'll need to.

These shouldn't cost more than £10 together.

Want the part numbers?

rossi · Oct 6, 2011

Losttheplot said:
There are a couple of needle bearings and a seal you'll need to.

These shouldn't cost more than £10 together.

Want the part numbers?

might be useful

JohnnyBoxer · Oct 14, 2011

Losttheplot said:
There are a couple of needle bearings and a seal you'll need to.

These shouldn't cost more than £10 together.

Want the part numbers?

Please

Losttheplot · Oct 14, 2011

Part numbers for the 2 needle sleeves:

c11.14.2.343.036
c11.14.2.343.037

The seal for the top of the clutch case:

c21.21.2.343.259

Should cost less than a tenner...

And if you want a spare circlip (incase the original pings off across the garage on removal :blast

)

c21.21.2.343.258, and thats a bank breaking 28p!

HTH

nathan

Nobu · Oct 15, 2011

Clutch, fair dealing

Hallo from Germany
some words to our clutchproblems.
I think, more or less all Rotax engines at the X-models will get problems because this is a design fault.
The good thing is:
for me and a lot of other owners BMW changed the clutchparts free of charge (fair dealing).
We payed only for work (about 80€).
A problem my be:
this is in condition that all services are made at BMW dealers.
Greetings from South Bavaria Germany
Nobu

Timpo · Oct 15, 2011

Good work LTP. :thumb2

I'll take a look over mine for wear..... the bike rocked over 10000 miles whilst out in Portugal this trip.
So, the cover is one part number and the bush is another..... or am I being blonde?

Effectively, your worn casing has allowed the pulling rack to fall out of mesh with the actuating pinion.... incredible to think that amount of wear has occurrred.

T.

Losttheplot · Oct 15, 2011

Timpo said:
Good work LTP.
I'll take a look over mine for wear..... the bike rocked over 10000 miles whilst out in Portugal this trip.
So, the cover is one part number and the bush is another..... or am I being blonde?
Effectively, your worn casing has allowed the pulling rack to fall out of mesh with the actuating pinion.... incredible to think that amount of wear has occurrred.

T.

Timpo,

check your existing cover first! Just had a few PM's from JB, and he seems to think his standard cover has a bush fitted in already- where as mine does not.

The "revised" cover comes with the bush fitted as standard.

It's just occured to me, that maybe bmw are supplying this revised part on the standard part number now- which is why vines couldn't find it on the parts system?

As for the wear v. mileage? i agree this is very premature. But realisticly steel running direct onto alluminium is never really going to be a good idea...

Losttheplot · Jan 25, 2013

Bump

nigel tailyour · Feb 18, 2013

Can anyone help me get the clutch cover back on please? I replaced the clutch plates but am stumped by the clutch release spigot when I try to put the large black cover back on. It won't go into the cover so that the release rod can engage and operate it.

I offer up the cover and the release spigot is floppy and wont line up.

What have I done wrong?

Losttheplot · Feb 18, 2013

nigel tailyour said:
Can anyone help me get the clutch cover back on please? I replaced the clutch plates but am stumped by the clutch release spigot when I try to put the large black cover back on. It won't go into the cover so that the release rod can engage and operate it.

I offer up the cover and the release spigot is floppy and wont line up.

What have I done wrong?

IIRC i placed the cover onto the spigot and rotated the cover so both sets of teeth on the shaft would engage. I think i had to rotate the release shaft with a pair of pliers to allow the centre shaft to slide into the cover.

Then just bolted it all up.

hth

magno · Mar 11, 2013

Clutch cover

Whipped off my clutch cover this weekend when changing the oil. Mine appears not to have the bush. see pic.

Are we saying that the forward and backward movement of the rack in the housing causes this excessive wear? Unless I'm being a bit thick, the pinion only moves a few mm to engage and disengage the clutch. This tiny movement can cause so much wear and then failure? Seems hard to believe. Can anyone confirm this? Prepping for a Siberia trip this summer so I want to eliminate any potential weak spots beforehand.

My thinking that as this affects only a handful of bikes it could have been a machining/tolerance issue from new. If some bikes left the factory with excessive clearance then this wear would be exacerbated when used and cause the rack and pinion to fall out of mesh and jam up the clutch actuation.

Clutch mechanism failure (Again!)

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