Clutch mechanism failure (Again!)

[Losttheplot]

OK, there's a problem...

My engineering friend has started to bore out the hole, but he can't do it because the needle bearing is interfering and we haven't accounted for that!
Does anybody know if it must be removed before doing this job.
How do you remove that clutch cover needle bearing anyway??

When i had my first issues i replaced all the bearings as well as the shafts.

The bearing in the centre of the cover is quite simple to remove. I used a drill shank, from a 3mm? drill- just big enough to fit inside the small hole in the centre of the clutch cover, just below where you wish to machine for your bushing. I measured the outside diameter of the new bearing, and ground the drill shank slightly shorter than this.

Next up i found a long piece of steel rod, just small enough to slip inside the roller bearings, then drilled a hole across the end of it, so that when i passed this through the bottom bearing, i could pop the shortened drill shank into the hole in the end of the steel rod, through the small hole in the clutch cover. You can then pull on this steel rod and it should pull your bottom bearing out.



Think i might have those pieces in my toolbox somewhere if you want to borrow them?

 

[Nobu]

Hallo Bliss
i asked X-Treiber of the German x-forum to explain his work and he did.
http://www.michaelbense.de/g650x/fo...0&sid=eb7dbae2d619d074a3747899235f5eb3#p39130
Unfortunately my English is not good enough to translate it for you.
As you will see X-Treiber used some spezial tools which he made especially for this job.
Otherwise imho the way Losttheplot used is also a good one.
Sorry that i can´t do more for you.
Greetings from Bavaria
Nobu

 

[Bliss]

Thank you tremendously for the help!

Losttheplot, I have a bearing extractor on the way from ebay. If that fails, I will gladly ask you to borrow those rods.

This is the post written for Nobu's question (excuse m google translate):

Here is a description as I've edited the cover:

Cover dismantle, remove, clean and actuator shaft.

1 Top needle sleeve (HK1210) cast out with air hammer. The shaft seal is thus also removed.
Screw M6x200, round steel 66x45mm with 6.5mm through hole as stroke weight, adapter with internal thread M6, about 35mm long, top diameter 12,00 ... 12,10 mm, down 12.90 ... 13.00 mm. I have for the sake of simplicity an existing dowel pin with internal thread beaten into a socket so I can spare myself the tapping.
Push the adapter from the inside through the needle sleeve, screw the plug together with weight on the outside and "Give it!".

2 Remove inner (lower) needle sleeve (HK0808) performed in the same.
This must be connected to a second M8x200 screw threads are turned down to M5.
M5 nut on two opposite edges so chamfer on both sides to make it fall into the needle sleeve.
Matching (also sanded) washer on it and air hammer screw.
The disassembly is something Frickelei, also does not always work on the first attempt because the mother
yields and slides through the sleeve. Then grind new mother and try again.
It is recommended to use one of Va because it is a bit harder, but it funzt with a steel.
In this procedure, a little patience and caution, who gross motor during work may damage the paint with the striking weight or skin a notch in the seat of the upper needle sleeve. So who tends to screw up more often something that sticks better the critical points with duct tape and only removed the lower sleeve and only then the upper. Also goes!

3 The 12-hole 14,05 ... 14,10 mm reaming. Bushing should slide easily into the hole.

4 Jack centered approximately 4.5 mm deep to about 11 mm in width so that mill out the hole of the actuator shaft is free.
This is not soo accurate, the cut-out should not just be too large so that the needle sleeve still act as a backstop, but still can be introduced.

5 Bushing with Loctite Glue 620.

6 Lower needle sleeve recover. I have this hergenommen a M12x220 screw, cut the thread and, about 9 mm deep filmed a covenant with 8 mm diameter. Head screws on 16mm tapered (used to set the upper sleeve).

7 Top needle sleeve mount and Wedi (12x18x4, 5) down by hand (is very easy clean).

8 Setting the actuator shaft.
The lower sleeve must not be too far taken, but only so far until the groove sits about 1 mm below the upper stop, so that the circlip can still be mounted. The magnesium is quite thin, so do not force it on the site. If the end play is between 0.5 ... 1.0 mm, it's okay.

9 Adhesive to cure for 24 hours.

Greeting Peter

http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/fil...c.html&usg=ALkJrhj90lWl2xxK40baqjotSC2pHurPPw

 

[Losttheplot]

Just found this photo..

Provided i can get this photo to show (!), this should demonstrate how i removed the needle sleeve.

the photo is a little blurry, but you should be able to make out the little dowel that slides into the end of the long bolt.

 

[yamfan]

Just had this failure today on my XCountry

Luckily I was only a couple of miles from home and was able to nurse it home without a clutch.

Stripped it down and there is only a small amount of wear in the cover, but it is enough for the rack part to wedge in and strip the tooth off.

Have ordered a new part 21217709526 . it is the clutch release rack. The pinion only has a small amount of wear and it can be rotated so that unworn teeth can mesh with the new rack.

I will try to bore out the housing and install a bush.

Any recommendations on material to use for the bush? I was thinking of using mild steel

Have 25,500 KM on the bike now.

 

[Bliss]

I have installed a Permaglide bushing, which is, if i remember right, a stainless steel core plated with brass and Finished off with Teflon.

It comes in the right size and only needs a "side hole",as you would have to make anyway!

Full details in signature link.

 

[yamfan]

Thanks Bliss,

I will look into that, Has it been holding up well since?

I would sooner try to fix it myself than pay out 140 euro for an updated cover.

 

[Bliss]

It might be wishful thinking,but the clutch action is smooth as silk!!
Only about 10000km or so since the install,all ok

Ps. Losttheplot has very kindly lent me his extraction shaft,could not do the job without it!

 

[tee bee]

i have a spare cover,waiting for a bush.If i can find the right bush, i will fix it and do a px for anyone needing one... for half the bmw cost.

 

[tee bee]

I can also do a decat, for anyone interested.

 

[yamfan]

Got some work done today.

My local BMW car only dealership, will order motorrad parts if I can give them the part number.

So the new rack release shaft arrived in less than 24 hrs, which isn't bad going for a car dealership. It also means the nearest bike dealer (150km) had it in stock, so it must be a popular part.

I picked up the teflon coated bush in the local farm engineering supply shop - they have everything It has a slit along its length but its not a problem. 14 mm outside diameter 12 mm ID and 25 mm long.


The lower pinion shaft bearing must be removed, so this is my take on the removal tools shown earlier in this thread. M8 threaded bar with a 3.5mm hole in the end for the 3mm dia pin. This bearing was very tight in my case. Some heat helps here.



Got over to my brothers place to use his lathe and drink his tea
This is the setup we used, a milling machine would have been easier, but we don't have one -- yet


The yellow tape on the boring bar is to mark roughly 26mm depth.

The casing face was trued up to the faceplate by tightening or loosening the clamp bolts, there is a cloth behind the cover to protect the finish.

The most important part is to get the center of the bore, as the rack and pinion have to have the correct clearance.

To do this we used the new rack, pushed all the way in,to the unworn part of the bore. Then the DTI could be used to center the bore


One other small detail, the bush needs to have the side filled out so the rack and pinion can mesh.


So that's it, good as new now for a cost of 4 Euro for the bush and a ball breaking 62 Euro for the rack.



One other point, install the bush before you install the bearing. If the bearing is installed first it will be in the way of the bush going in.

Thanks to everyone who posted information earlier, it has made the situation much clearer for the rest of us

The finished item is shown in the first photo, also showing the removal tool.

 

[yamfan]

I got the cover fitted to the bike today and released it back into it's natural habitat.

The clutch action is great now

Since the bike was almost new, the clutch would drag by various amounts, regardless of cable adjustment.

It now completely disengages with an inch of clearance between the bar and lever.

This seems to be the root cause of a lot of clutch complaints mentioned.

So in summary, If you have the older casing you will have this problem sooner or later .
A dragging clutch may be a imminent warning that it is about to fail.
Change the cover and save yourself the cost of the shafts and inconvenience of a breakdown.

It is worth if for the improved clutch action alone

By the way, on my bike it was not necessary to drain the engine oil to remove the cover, although I did put a small piece of timber under the side stand to make the bike stand more upright.

 

[bighair]

Is there a stop/shoulder for the smaller inner bearing

Hi
Can anyone who has does the mod or changed the smaller inner bearing is there a stop or shoulder for the bearing to sit on ?
As I am going to remove one and did not want to damage it if there was one.
if there is not did any one have an install height ?
Thanks

 

[bighair]

Bugg-- the bearing broke while extracting , got to try and get the remains out.

 

[bighair]

Happy now got the outer part of the bearing out , same principle but used 10mm threaded bar and made the small pin longer and just kept filing it down till it was a a real snug fit and could just rotate it once in the hole and again plenty of heat then out she popped .
Now to get the cover and bush machined hopefully !!!

 

[yamfan]

Hi Bighair

Did you find much wear on your cover?

I don't think there is any stop for the bottom bearing.

You can check the depth by putting in the pinion shaft and seeing if the upper circlip groove is in the right position.

I would carefully weigh up the cost of paying a machine shop for this, it may work out cheaper to buy the replacement cover.

PS I reused the all the bearings and the seal as they were in good condition.

 

[bighair]

I did measure the depth from the seal recess to bearing , machine time should be cheap to fair .
Got all new bearings and seal and bushes from my local bearing shop (excellent guys) the top seal and bearing came out fine , the shafts are fine no damage .
The wear appears (worst of) is when it is nearly fully home and tips and locks against the side so really worn enough to start tipping but just looking at it looked fine , but with the clutch lifter in just so it just engages there is play/movement which i would not have thought excessive but then move it in and then it must start tipping and digging in.

 

[bighair]

I did measure the depth from the seal recess to bearing , machine time should be cheap to fair .
Got all new bearings and seal and bushes from my local bearing shop (excellent guys) the top seal and bearing came out fine , the shafts are fine no damage .
The wear appears (worst of) is when it is nearly fully home and tips and locks against the side so really worn enough to start tipping but just looking at it looked fine , but with the clutch lifter in just so it just engages there is play/movement which i would not have thought excessive but then move it in and then it must start tipping and digging in.

 

[yamfan]

Good stuff,

My cover was worn about the same amount as you describe an it broke the teeth on the rack, so you must have caught it just in time.

You should notice a good improvement in clutch action!

 

[bighair]

Yamfan
How much under-size did you bore the hole as I am using a similar bush as you used ?
Was it a heat up case and chill bush to fit (as normal with an interference fit)