So you don't actually know for certain? just an 'understanding' hmmmmmmmm
Hilltop Results on the LC
- Thread starter Dodgy Burt
- Start date
So you don't actually know for certain? just an 'understanding' hmmmmmmmm
No and I couldn't give a fuck whether they're used or not !!!!! If you do, ASK THE GUY WHO KNOWS.................RETARD !!!
Thought so - thanks for your input.
YAWN!
That's it .... I'm out
That's it .... I'm out
Deleted account 181015003
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Engineer do you work in design or repair of the internal combustion engine or some other discipline I have no idea?
Have you stripped a engine rebuilt and set up a carb ignition timing etc if so the following will make more sense?
You may or may not know that manufacturers set ignition timing and the fuel air mixture to pass emissions regulations (a weak mixture) at low revs and to make the bike work reasonable in a wide range of environments and different fuel qualities (rich mixture) at higher revs to protect the engine if using poor quality fuel.
A weak mixture will cause the engine to run hotter and risk valve piston damage but will help the cat work and reduce emissions a rich mixture will reduce power and use extra fuel
The manufacturer must make a compromise to ensure the bike will work here on our fuel and also work in a third world country on poor fuel while ensuring it meets the regulations on noise and emissions without damaging the engine due to pre-ignition and burnt valves or pistons a tough call to say the least and a compromise in efficiency of the engine.
What Geoff does is optimize the fueling mixture to make the bike work at its best in the environment its in and using the fuel available UK quality fuel
I had one of my bikes done by Geoff and it was very weak at low revs 17:1 and rich higher up 12:1 Geoff made the adjustments needed to optimize the fuel air ratio to give the ideal 14.7:1 what Geoff does is no different to changing the jets needle adjusting a traditional carburetor to give the ideal mixture and adjusting the ignition timing its not magic or witchcraft.
Geoff has the experience and equipment to make these changes to the ECU and the majority of people who have had this done agree its a big improvement on how the bike runs by optimizing the fuel are ratio and ignition timing to the ideal for the petrol engine using the current fuel.
I am sure if you ring and ask Geoff he will explain in greater detail than I can as his knowledge and experience of this optimizing of these type of engines is vastly greater than mine.
The hardware of the fuel system still works the same except it now gives the engine the ideal 14.7:1 air fuel mixture and a spark at the optimum time not a compromise
Have you stripped a engine rebuilt and set up a carb ignition timing etc if so the following will make more sense?
You may or may not know that manufacturers set ignition timing and the fuel air mixture to pass emissions regulations (a weak mixture) at low revs and to make the bike work reasonable in a wide range of environments and different fuel qualities (rich mixture) at higher revs to protect the engine if using poor quality fuel.
A weak mixture will cause the engine to run hotter and risk valve piston damage but will help the cat work and reduce emissions a rich mixture will reduce power and use extra fuel
The manufacturer must make a compromise to ensure the bike will work here on our fuel and also work in a third world country on poor fuel while ensuring it meets the regulations on noise and emissions without damaging the engine due to pre-ignition and burnt valves or pistons a tough call to say the least and a compromise in efficiency of the engine.
What Geoff does is optimize the fueling mixture to make the bike work at its best in the environment its in and using the fuel available UK quality fuel
I had one of my bikes done by Geoff and it was very weak at low revs 17:1 and rich higher up 12:1 Geoff made the adjustments needed to optimize the fuel air ratio to give the ideal 14.7:1 what Geoff does is no different to changing the jets needle adjusting a traditional carburetor to give the ideal mixture and adjusting the ignition timing its not magic or witchcraft.
Geoff has the experience and equipment to make these changes to the ECU and the majority of people who have had this done agree its a big improvement on how the bike runs by optimizing the fuel are ratio and ignition timing to the ideal for the petrol engine using the current fuel.
I am sure if you ring and ask Geoff he will explain in greater detail than I can as his knowledge and experience of this optimizing of these type of engines is vastly greater than mine.
The hardware of the fuel system still works the same except it now gives the engine the ideal 14.7:1 air fuel mixture and a spark at the optimum time not a compromise
After my discussion with Geoff my parting question , (just to be sure ).
was " So your firmware runs in open loop all the time and disregards the lambda sensors." Geoff's answer "yes" .
was " So your firmware runs in open loop all the time and disregards the lambda sensors." Geoff's answer "yes" .
What does that mean?
Interesting - thanks for that input, perhaps the problem is that people get a differing understanding from their conversations with Geoff - this is why I say that written answers are best. Seems like your information from Geoff supports my conclusions.
In closed loop, the exhaust is sampled by the lambda sensors and the ecu adjusts the fuelling to a target figure.
In open loop, the sensors are disregarded and the fuelling is dictated by a map.
At least, that is my understanding of it.
But is different to post 224
Which states that the sensors are still used.
Thanks
Jesus H Christ, another 15 pages of utter bollox because 1 person is like a dog with a bone is basically trying to discredit someone because he doesn't believe it works. Then anyone who has some understanding of what's going on chips in with a load of technical jargon which means precisely diddly squat to most people.
The point is with the remap is it works, plain and simple, no if's and no but's. I've not met one person who has had it done who didn't think there was a huge improvement and worth the money. I've ridden a few Hilltop bikes and think it's a brilliant upgrade.
Engineer, do us all a favour and sit down in a room with Geoff and talk to him instead of doing all the questioning here. Then, and only then, come back and let us know whether you believe him or not.
Either that or just let it go and get on with you life.
The point is with the remap is it works, plain and simple, no if's and no but's. I've not met one person who has had it done who didn't think there was a huge improvement and worth the money. I've ridden a few Hilltop bikes and think it's a brilliant upgrade.
Engineer, do us all a favour and sit down in a room with Geoff and talk to him instead of doing all the questioning here. Then, and only then, come back and let us know whether you believe him or not.
Either that or just let it go and get on with you life.
Paule
Registered user
I took my KTM 1190 r to Hilltop a few weeks ago. I'd fitted de-cat headers, fitted a Rottwieler air box, sas removed, lambda sensors removed and fitted the Rottwiler dongles.
1st thing Geoff asked me when I got there, with a frown on his face "where's your lambda sensors?" I explained what I'd done and he said I must put them back in. He Worked around it then loaded a rich 2 hr map to get me home with strict instruction to Re-fitted the lambda sensors when I got home. The bike is an absolute missile and I recon I'm also getting around 5mpg better as well.
If he was disregarding the sensors why was he so insistent that I put them back in?
1st thing Geoff asked me when I got there, with a frown on his face "where's your lambda sensors?" I explained what I'd done and he said I must put them back in. He Worked around it then loaded a rich 2 hr map to get me home with strict instruction to Re-fitted the lambda sensors when I got home. The bike is an absolute missile and I recon I'm also getting around 5mpg better as well.
If he was disregarding the sensors why was he so insistent that I put them back in?
Exactly - so which is it? Are they used or not.
I thought this was a technical section for the dissemination technical information and help relevant to then LC so I am not going to slag anyone off or be abusive because it gets in the way of the facts.
Please if you can't add anything really useful then ignore this thread and go do something else - there are at least one to two people here who want to understand and learn, they are reluctant to join in because they know if they disagree with the 'received wisdom' they will be hounded.
Perhaps KTMs are re-mapped differently, I would not be surprised if it has a different processor or there is some other reason.
Seems like one person with a GS say they are used and one says they are not, both apparently given this information by the same person - so the truth still remains a mystery.
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