RISE NOW AND BE A NATION AGAIN !

At last - some clarity and clear debate for the referendum in Shetland.
An opportunity for Alastair Carmichael MP for Shetland and Orkney and Secretary of State for Scotland, to set out a clear case for the union amongst his home supporters.

Pre-discussion vote
For 58
Against 57
Don't know 31

Motion, "The time is right for Scottish independence"

Speaking for
Proposer Mike McKenzie MSP
Seconder Danus Skene

Speaking against
Alastair Carmicheal MP, Secretary of State for Scotland
Ian Duncan, Conservative No 1 EU elections

Tingwall Hall
Saturday
22 March

After discussion
For 70
Against 48
Don't know 22

Secretary of State for Scotland beaten in his own constituency!
 
Just noticed this on your footer, how apt

When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others.

It is the same when you are stupid
 
Northern jock said:
My guess is that you are actually paid by Wee Eck and his pals to stick links to stuff, quote various websites but spout none of yer own shite? I haven't read too much of the thread but the main thing that stands out is your ability to copy and paste - and fek all else.

Were you given this forum to haunt or did you volunteer?
Click to expand...

How about instead of knocking someone who is actually providing information all be it not his own opinion you enlighten us with some of "yer own shite". Would you actually listen to his own opinion or simply demand it's shite and he needs to provide proof I.E a link because you don't agree with him?
It's easy to have a go at someone and try and insult them which sadly seems to be a typical ploy of the no voters.
 
Marki_GSA said:
How about instead of knocking someone who is actually providing information all be it not his own opinion you enlighten us with some of "yer own shite". Would you actually listen to his own opinion or simply demand it's shite and he needs to provide proof I.E a link because you don't agree with him?
It's easy to have a go at someone and try and insult them which sadly seems to be a typical ploy of the no voters.
Click to expand...

Who said I'm a NO voter?

And everyone else on this site (and most others) has an opinion, not a copy and paste. Just curious if there is someone behind the paste
 
Marki_GSA said:
How about instead of knocking someone who is actually providing information all be it not his own opinion you enlighten us with some of "yer own shite". Would you actually listen to his own opinion or simply demand it's shite and he needs to provide proof I.E a link because you don't agree with him?
It's easy to have a go at someone and try and insult them which sadly seems to be a typical ploy of the no voters.
Click to expand...


There is rather a distinction between 'information' and 'propaganda'...a fact that seems to have escaped many. Much of his propaganda is indeed shite.
 
It's just a wee bit like sitting in the pub over a beer, talking shite, one guy appears and says nothing but hands out pamphlets, paper cuttings, fliers. You kind of want him (her) to actually say something? Express an opinion?

I'm just sitting on the sidelines of this thread, reading both sides but I have to say I'm not clicking on any links or reading any pasted articles. I'm more interested in what people think (people here that is, plenty other groups elsewhere, this just happens to be one where I know quite a few folk)
 
For anyone interested in Scotland joining the EU after a YES vote.

For anyone with an interest in Scotland joining the EU after a YES vote, here is the Government White Paper on the subject.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmfaff/writev/643/m05.htm

And for anyone that won't open a link.

1. The object of this note is to clarify the procedure by which, following a referendum in which the Scottish people vote in favour of independence, Scotland could become a member of the European Union. Although the note touches on wider issues such as the terms of Scotland’s membership and the attitude of the EU member states and institutions, it focuses on the question of the procedure for Scotland’s accession.

2. In the debate on Scottish independence it is natural that opponents tend to exaggerate the difficulties of EU membership, while proponents tend to minimise them. This note tries to address the subject as objectively as possible. In summary it argues that:

· Arrangements for Scotland’s EU membership would need to be in place simultaneously with independence

· Scotland’s 5 million people, having been members of the EU for 40 years; have acquired rights as European citizens

· For practical and political reasons they could not be asked to leave the EU and apply for readmission

· Negotiations on the terms of membership would take place in the period between the referendum and the planned date of independence

· The EU would adopt a simplified procedure for the negotiations, not the traditional procedure followed for the accession of non-member countries
 
Toddy said:
For anyone with an interest in Scotland joining the EU after a YES vote, here is the Government White Paper on the subject.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmfaff/writev/643/m05.htm

And for anyone that won't open a link.

1. The object of this note is to clarify the procedure by which, following a referendum in which the Scottish people vote in favour of independence, Scotland could become a member of the European Union. Although the note touches on wider issues such as the terms of Scotland’s membership and the attitude of the EU member states and institutions, it focuses on the question of the procedure for Scotland’s accession.

2. In the debate on Scottish independence it is natural that opponents tend to exaggerate the difficulties of EU membership, while proponents tend to minimise them. This note tries to address the subject as objectively as possible. In summary it argues that:

· Arrangements for Scotland’s EU membership would need to be in place simultaneously with independence

· Scotland’s 5 million people, having been members of the EU for 40 years; have acquired rights as European citizens

· For practical and political reasons they could not be asked to leave the EU and apply for readmission

· Negotiations on the terms of membership would take place in the period between the referendum and the planned date of independence

· The EU would adopt a simplified procedure for the negotiations, not the traditional procedure followed for the accession of non-member countries
Click to expand...

But this is all from Ecks wish list....laughingly referred to as a white paper, which has already been discredited. Just because Eck keeps bellowing the same nonsense, doesn't change the fact that the EU have already explained...several times.... that it won't work like that??? Scotland won't be 'asked to leave'....Scotland will have abandoned its membership, along with everything else it will be walking away from if it leaves the UK. Thats why its so important that the undecided's understand the full implications of what independence will mean, and the cost of those implications.
 
Gerard, what do you mean by currently UK… one country? Which country and what about it?
And rest of UK… two countries? What two countries are you referring to and what about them?
What do I not get? Everything you have just written as it makes no sense. I don’t want to sound cheeky but it might help if you wrote in sentences I could understand.
 
Can we please stop all this twaddle and address the real issue; will motorbikes be more or less expensive in an independent Scotland?
 
Interesting article from someone who should know, rather than those who just say yes they can/no they can't.

I'm getting fed up now with the incessant football type of arguments, what we need are more factual arguments from people who are in the know like the above.
 
gerarddwatts said:
Currently....UK .....one country

Indie plans......Scotland, rest of UK.....two countries...

What do you not get??
Click to expand...

The point he was making was that at the moment the UK, which Scotland is a proud member of, has an MOD, a DVLA, DoT, VOSA, Met Office, Bank of England, Diplomatic Service etc etc etc...all the functions of one country and shared costs.

Nats plan to walk away and form another country....independent Scotland. Leaving the rest of the UK....another country. Scotland will have to set up..and pay for.. all the offices of state.

If you don't plan to split up the UK, and form 2 countries where they were united,then I don't understand the independence argument at all!! I suspect most of its supporters don't either.
 
Toddy said:
This is published by your heros in Westminster.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmfaff/writev/643/m05.htm

Open your mind.


.

Parliament.uk............get it.
Click to expand...

You should read these things properly. That is NOT government policy. It is a piece of evidence given to a select committee

You should take time to read the rebuttal by the Select Committee. I'll quote you one bit..

'3. The President of the European Commission said in September 2012 that any
country separating from an EU Member State would need to negotiate its terms
of EU membership. An independent Scottish state’s negotiations on EU
membership could prove to be both complex and lengthy because the process
would require unanimity across all Member States of the EU, and given the EU’s
expectation that all new Member States must join the Euro and Schengen,
despite the Scottish Government’s stated intention to retain both sterling and the
common travel area'

and another..

'4. The UK Government agrees with the Committee’s findings that there are
significant gaps in the Scottish Government’s account of what foreign policies it
would adopt after independence and, crucially, how a newly independent Scottish
state would establish the structures, secure the relationships and find the
resources required to pursue key foreign policy objectives. The UK Government
endorses the Committee’s view that an independent Scottish state’s journey
towards membership of international organisations, including the EU, would be
far from straightforward, and certainly not automatic. Given the complex nature of
these accession negotiations, it may well not prove possible to secure
membership terms in line with the Scottish Government’s domestic political
assertions.'



Don't pass off propaganda as information in the hope of fooling voters.
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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